Quantcast Is it Possible to get DTS and Pro Logic 2 Encoded Sound on SVCDs? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-10-2004, 07:44 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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just a few question regarding the above

1. Is it possible to get DTS and PRO LOGIC 2 encoded sound on SVCDS

2. If so what programs can i use to do this?

3. some video games come with PRO LOGIC 2 sound, but u need to have an amp capable of decoded this, if u have the prologic 2 feature on your amp it can convert a stereo signal to PL2, so my question is what is the point having PRO LOGIC 2 encoded sound in the first place why not just stereo?
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  #2  
06-10-2004, 10:24 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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1+2.:

SVCD does not support AC3/DTS means a format which can include 5.1 Channels, which means Dolby Digital 5.1
BUT you can perform a downmix to Prologic Surround2 specs using Besweet or headac3he where by this you and up in a surround2 stream which can be encoded to mp2 for example which is supported by SVCD as we know.

3.
Quote:
it can convert a stereo signal to PL2
Thats "said" wrong.

There does exist "stereo" and "Suround2 encoded stereo"
So a simple stereo stream cant be "really" become surround2 if a real surround2 matrix is not included in the stereo signal! And that Surround2 matrix will be applied when doing a correct downmix from a multichannel source to Surround2-stereo.

There are may DDdecoders which are able to apply an "effect" on a stereo only signal (not surround source) which does "sound" like separate channel output on your DDdecoder system. But if you compare that with a Surround2-Stereo input, ... you will directly hear the difference.
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06-10-2004, 12:40 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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that does make sence.
on my kvcds, with normal mp2 128kbps, i used a dvd to make this, went from Dolby Digital 5.1 to Mp2. Now whenplaying the movie i have used the pro logic 2 feature on my amp, it has worked really well i.e front left and right channels, centre channel with the Vocals, and rear channels.

i got good results, is this due to the fact that the stereo sound orginally came from a surround source, and maybe the sound is stereo surround?

i used besweet to encode the sound to mp2
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06-10-2004, 12:41 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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Quote:
SVCD does not support AC3/DTS means a format which can include 5.1 Channels, which means Dolby Digital 5.1
BUT you can perform a downmix to Prologic Surround2 specs using Besweet or headac3he where by this you and up in a surround2 stream which can be encoded to mp2 for example which is supported by SVCD as we know.
what can i use to apply surround2 to a stereo signal? i know u have said besweet but im not too sure how to go about doing this ( there are no clear option for Prologic 2) ? are there any guides for what u said above?

thanks mate
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06-10-2004, 12:51 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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khusru
i'm searching a link to a guide for 5.1 with svcd but i can't find the link that i posted here in kvcd forum...
i'm searching for more than a hour,please,help me to find cos you will like it.
the link have a little file for test your player before you encode your movie.in one of my players works perfect .....i'm still searching,ok?
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06-10-2004, 03:55 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks u so much mate. well appreciate the help, il have a look for it aswell, if i find il get back 2 u
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06-10-2004, 04:02 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
There does exist "stereo" and "Suround2 encoded stereo"
Beeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppppp.
Wrong !

DPL2 isn't an encoding protocol, it's just a DSP (digital sound processor) copyrighted by Dolby.

Quote:
Dolby Pro Logic II is an advanced matrix decoder that derives five-channel surround (Left, Center, Right, Left Surround, and Right Surround) from any stereo program material, whether or not it has been specifically Dolby Surround encoded. On encoded material such as movie soundtracks, the sound is more like Dolby Digital 5.1 (see below), while on unencoded stereo material such as music CDs the effect is a wider, more involving soundfield. Among other improvements over Pro Logic, Pro Logic II provides two full-range surround channels, as opposed to Pro Logicís single, limited-bandwidth surround channel.
Here is the link !

When you see "encoded in DPL2" it's just a comemrcial argument to fool the noobs. As you can see, that works

Note: DPL2 and DPL are just two ways to DECODE Dolby Surround ENCODED stereo streams.
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  #8  
06-10-2004, 04:08 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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great link Phil!

there have a question:

"How well did this answer your question?"
100%-75%-50%-25%-0%

i want to write:
"i don't know how much i understood"
but don't have space!
(just kiddin).
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06-10-2004, 04:18 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
There does exist "stereo" and "Suround2 encoded stereo"
Beeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppppp.
Wrong !

DPL2 isn't an encoding protocol, it's just a DSP (digital sound processor) copyrighted by Dolby.

Quote:
Dolby Pro Logic II is an advanced matrix decoder that derives five-channel surround (Left, Center, Right, Left Surround, and Right Surround) from any stereo program material, whether or not it has been specifically Dolby Surround encoded. On encoded material such as movie soundtracks, the sound is more like Dolby Digital 5.1 (see below), while on unencoded stereo material such as music CDs the effect is a wider, more involving soundfield. Among other improvements over Pro Logic, Pro Logic II provides two full-range surround channels, as opposed to Pro Logicís single, limited-bandwidth surround channel.
Here is the link !

When you see "encoded in DPL2" it's just a comemrcial argument to fool the noobs. As you can see, that works

Note: DPL2 and DPL are just two ways to DECODE Dolby Surround ENCODED stereo streams.
so basically Phil u r saying? DPL2 is just a way of decoding sound into a surround mode, and when they say certain videos/games have dpl2..... they are lieing?

so guys can i encode surround sound mp2 or not?
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06-10-2004, 04:33 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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They are almost lying.

It's possible (I mean POSSIBLE, nothign on the DOlby Inc site talk about that) that the only diff between a regular "Dolby Surround" encode and a "Dolby Surround ready for DPL2 decoding" encode, is the high-cut filter that is applyied on the surround channels.

Normally, you have to cut frequencies in surround right and surround left channel above 7 KHz before to encode them in the Dolby Surround stream.
As DPL2 decoding is full-band for the surround (20Hz-20KHz) you must have a source that is NOT limited to 7Khz.

But I'm quite sure that these sources do not exist because, played on regular DPL decoder, they will hiss a lot in the surround speakers
And DPL decoder are MUCH MORE present in people home than DPL2 ones !

So they probably find the way to encode a full range channel into a 7Khz limited one. PERHARPS !


Finally : yes, you can encode in surround if you are going from AC3 but NOT if you start for a stereo stream that is not yet in surround.
Besweet and Headac3che both generates surround streams on demand.
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06-10-2004, 04:34 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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khusru ask:
"so guys can i encode surround sound mp2 or not?"

maybe yes my friend but first we have to find the link that i told you to test your player and to download the files(free files to do the job).....i still can't find it!

edited: Phil was faster to post and his explanations are cool!
the post that i told you have more details about that!
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06-10-2004, 04:35 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
maybe yes my friend but first we have to find the link that i told you to test your player and to download the files(frre files to do the job).....i still can't find it!
Are you mad Jorel ? You encode in surround mode all the time using headac3che and you never noticed it ?
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06-10-2004, 04:39 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
maybe yes my friend but first we have to find the link that i told you to test your player and to download the files(frre files to do the job).....i still can't find it!
Are you mad Jorel ? You encode in surround mode all the time using headac3che and you never noticed it ?
well, mad is my normal
but i'm searching a thread teaching how to encode svcd with 5.1 to send for Fabrice but i can't find it! need some preliminar tests for each player..some works,anothers don't! it' a different way Phil!
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06-11-2004, 04:54 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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well that does explain a lot on the dolby side, i always thought it was a bit suss.

still havnt found that link u were talking about jorel, i was trying for quite a while.
Phil do u know of any guides for ac3 5.1 to surround MP2? or maybe u can help find this link that jorel told me of?
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06-11-2004, 05:12 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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there is no need of guide : by default azid does ac3->mp2 surround.
And azid i used by besweet and headac3che !

of course if you want you can change this default behavious with the GUIof each of these tools.
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06-11-2004, 05:18 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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i normally use besweet, so if i load up my ac3 and do a conversion to mp2 using besweet by default it will encode surround? thats great.
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06-11-2004, 07:52 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
There does exist "stereo" and "Suround2 encoded stereo"
Beeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppppp.
Wrong !

DPL2 isn't an encoding protocol, it's just a DSP (digital sound processor) copyrighted by Dolby.
Ahh

I thought at Surround2 encoding a different Matrix would be applied!?
But the quote you posted makes sense!
So it depends on the DD decoder someone uses, so the decoder itself at surround cuts the rear channel freq. at 7hz while at surround 2 he delivers full bandwith at rear channels?
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06-11-2004, 08:08 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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okay guys i want to say thanks for the help.... but u r confusing me now

dolby prologic 2 - it is just a decoder thats built into to the amp to give you 5 channel surround sound. you can not incode to pro logic 2, but u can encode a stereo signal that is adjusted to work better with the Dolby Decoder...e.g a stereo surround mp2 file, so when it is used with your amplifier you get a good surround experiance

am i correct in saying this?
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  #19  
06-11-2004, 11:26 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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@khusru
You are correct

@incredible
I don't remember if the cur is done at the decodign time or at the encoding. If it's at the decoding, you're right. If it is done at the encoding, then see my posst where i'm speaking about things that are PERHAPS done.
The answer should be on the dolby site but I'm too lazzy to check
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  #20  
06-11-2004, 03:24 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks Phil
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