Quantcast Producing a Correct 5.1 AC3 Stream Using Free Tools? (Part1) - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
11-02-2004, 05:43 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Related to volume: If you add a normalizing like acid( -g max) then the volume is like the original AC3 from the orig DVD.
Unfortunally wrong. Deeply wrong. Volume seems to be -3dB, that means HALF volume. Do the test (I decided to drop all ac3 processing 2 weeks ago because of that and I used the last besweet.exe for that).

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And till now nobody in the world started a big topic about too low ORIG. AC3's
Yeap. That's also a mess
Someday, 12:01 PM
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  #2  
11-02-2004, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Unfortunally wrong. Deeply wrong. Volume seems to be -3dB, that means HALF volume.
Uops I never had that issue? Means THAT much lower AC3's.
Did you try also all whats possible via acid( -g max), ota (-g xxx) etc ....??

Also! Try a 3pass step and NOT piping within besweet.
Means first using acid for providing a wav, then doing normalizing that wav to a wav_normalitzed and finally that wav_normalitzed to ac3 via ac3enc.dll ..... as I do remember there was a BIG difference once I tried it.

That also was a point on my todo list, IF that works, then building an AC3 2 or 3pass GUI ....
  #3  
11-02-2004, 06:02 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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correct me if i'm wrong.
AC3-5.1 have low volume in stereo sounds(receivers or amplifiers) cos only the right/left get presence but in douby surround systems you have
6 channels and the volume encrease so much.
my observations is that lots of people confuse the volume of ac3-5.1 in stereo amplifiers but forgot that importants details.
i confirm cos i use my encodes always ac3_5.1 in my kvdvs!!
  #4  
11-02-2004, 06:07 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Uops I never had that issue? Means THAT much lower AC3's. Did you try also all whats possible via acid( -g max), ota (-g xxx) etc ....??
-3dB is only my interpretation. And yes, I tried all the solution, and even using all together

Quote:
Also! Try a 3pass step and NOT piping within besweet.
Means first using acid for providing a wav, then doing normalizing that wav to a wav_normalitzed and finally that wav_normalitzed to ac3 via ac3enc.dll ..... as I do remember there was a BIG difference once I tried it.
"A" wav ? We are talking about 5.1 streams. So do you mean 6 wav files or a 6-channel wav (that I never tested).
  #5  
11-02-2004, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Also! Try a 3pass step and NOT piping within besweet.
Means first using acid for providing a wav, then doing normalizing that wav to a wav_normalitzed and finally that wav_normalitzed to ac3 via ac3enc.dll ..... as I do remember there was a BIG difference once I tried it.
"A" wav ? We are talking about 5.1 streams. So do you mean 6 wav files or a 6-channel wav (that I never tested).
YEP! a ".wav".

So we should "test" a multipass workout on ...

- AC3 5.1 6 ch .wav (via acid, .... but watch out for correct channel order) normalize 5.1 Ac3

- AC3 5.1 2 ch .wav (via acids downmix) normalize 2.0 Ac3

- Wav 2.0 normalize 2.0 Ac3


I t "could" be that there's an issue between "piped" streaming WITHIN besweets direct processing and that ac3enc.dll ... so we should give a try by AVOIDING a direct (piped) process via BeSweet and doing a 3pass way using temporal file safings.

Also the engine step for finally encoding the ac3's should be used with once the BeSweet/ac3enc.dll and onec with ffmpeg.exe!
I know both do base on liba52 but ... who knows ..
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11-02-2004, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
- AC3 5.1 6 ch .wav (via acid, .... but watch out for correct channel order) normalize 5.1 Ac3
That is the point I wasn't sure about : does normalize support 6 ch wav or not ? I will check if you did not test it yet.

Quote:
- AC3 5.1 2 ch .wav (via acids downmix) normalize 2.0 Ac3

- Wav 2.0 normalize 2.0 Ac3
Whow whow whow... wait a minute.
Once again we are going on separate ways .
Volume problem is only for 5.1 output. Ac3enc don't have this problem 2.0 ac3 files. I'm sorry, I messed you up
(I posted my answer here the same time I asked for headac3che in an other thread).

I think it's time to open a thread : how to do correct 5.1 streams whith free tools
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11-02-2004, 06:48 AM
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Right phil! Lets do open a seperate thread for doing a big workout .... I already downloaded azid.exe from digital digest, as its a commandline capable .exe, incl. a maximise/normalize function.
http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/azid.html
Do also have a look at the readme and its parameters ... seems a bit complicated but maybe its worth to have a deep look.

Also ONCE I figured out that the 5.1 Channel order of the resulted wav by azid.exe IS NOT 1:1 like the channel order ffmpeg.exe's does expect for a finally 1:1 5.1 CH ordered output, so we have to test! And maybe correctly re-order which's possible in azid.exe's commands/parameters.




EDIT: As you're a global mod, just split this thread from your second post on and give it a new thread name - thanks.
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11-02-2004, 06:58 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
correct me if i'm wrong.
AC3-5.1 have low volume in stereo sounds(receivers or amplifiers) cos only the right/left get presence but in douby surround systems you have
6 channels and the volume encrease so much.!!
With 2-channel output systems, the 6ch track is downmixed to these two channels. If it wasn't downmixed, you might even lose the dialog which is often in the front center channel!
  #9  
11-02-2004, 07:38 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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you don't read what i wrote(one more time)
seems normal when i write somethiong....lots can read what i wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
cos only the right/left get presence
i wrote presence!!! but don't wrote that all others channels are outside.

ok .i need to REPEAT:
in stereo amplifiers the volume of AC3-5.1 decrease..
only in dolby surround systems you get general volume cos (obvious) you have ONE amplifier for EACH channel but in stereo you have only 2 channels.....
dolby surround systems have 6 amplifiers inside (some have 5, some have 7)....seems logic now Boulder?
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11-02-2004, 07:58 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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(I splited last Jorel posts too but they should stay in the original thread Sorry !)
  #11  
11-02-2004, 08:05 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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jorel,

I still don't follow your logic because I was talking about downmixing

My standalone downmixes 6ch AC3 for 2ch output. The volume is not louder or more quiet than a 2ch track from the same DVD. The volume level is about the same. If the volume is way too low, the downmixing isn't done properly.
  #12  
11-02-2004, 10:39 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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of course Boulder
...i was talkinfg about 5.1 in stereo receivers/amplifiers and that was what you quote for answer me to talk about downmixes.., i don't!
in the situation that i wrote happen exact what i posted!
now i understand why seems ilogical cos you don't follow the logic-->in what i wrote : you are talking about ANOTHER thing, not what i posted! no problems!
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11-02-2004, 12:29 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Then the question is : why would you play 6ch audio tracks in stereo systems without downmixing the track to the two channels?
  #14  
11-02-2004, 01:03 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder
Then the question is : why would you play 6ch audio tracks in stereo systems without downmixing the track to the two channels?
And how ? (using an external decoder and pluggin only two of the 6 wires ?)
  #15  
11-02-2004, 05:47 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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you are so wise right?

if your player is adjusted to read the 5.1 audio and you pug the stereo output to one stereo amplifier, what do you will listen?

now with the same volume adjusted, use one doulby surround receiver.....the volume is equal?

do your own tests and answer yourself.

remember same volume in 2 speakers stereo and same volume in dolby surround is his respectives speakers....is equal?

in my single calculator show that 2 speakers in one receiver as stereo give LESS aound than adjusting for dolby surround in 6 speakers using the same volume cos have more 4 amplifiers working.
seems logical for the whole group of wise guys?

if someone want to answer don't change what i wrote in PERSONAL "interpretations" (across the limited and inventive universe inside your brain)only do the test that i wrote and tell for the reminders...for me don't need.......thanks
  #16  
11-04-2004, 04:19 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The present discussion continues here :
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15036
Thread closed.
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