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  #41  
06-05-2005, 06:40 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Note : -L sends the .1 to the front channel and on the subwoofer. You don't have normal 5.1 (the bass are louder than original).
I don't think I caught your thoughts on this one.
You mean that -L sends the .1 part of the 5.1 to the front channel and Subwoofer?
I'm not an audiophile so technically I don't know if that is good or bad.
What about my final ac3 not being normal?
Do you mean that without the -L my transcoded file has the basses louder than it should?
Cheers
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  #42  
06-06-2005, 02:49 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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@rds_correia

Hi Rui,

I did a quick test on PackShot (Normally I don't use PS) only to test if my SAP could accept ac3 made by BeSweet.

My new SAP has a volume level indicator with it's OSD. I kept the bitrate @ 256 and yes now that I have tested the original DVD there is a slight drop in volume when compared to the original source.

Normally I don't use BeSweet for my ac3 but like I said I just wanted to see if it worked on my SAP.

I hope this clears thing up a bit.
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  #43  
06-06-2005, 02:57 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Hi Phil ,
But I do.
Check my post again.
There is -ota( -d -23 -G 1 ).
Isn't that what you advised?
Didn't you edited you message ? Because I'm sure that there was a "-azid(-g0.95 -G 1)" when I typed mine, and this is not the same "-G" parameter.

For the -L option : yes this is to send the LFE on the front speaker. That is to be used when you do 5.1 -> 2.0 conversion, in order to not lose the information from the .1 channel.
But in case of 5.1 -> 5.1 you must not do that because the bass form the LFE are already sent to the subwoofer (the .1 channel) so you must not have them also on the frontal else the result will be louder, in these frequencies.

Of course, this also depends on the capability for your front speakers to restore bass, that is generally lower than the one of the subwoofer.
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  #44  
06-06-2005, 04:35 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
My new SAP has a volume level indicator with it's OSD.
Hey, that's neat
Brand and model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
...and yes now that I have tested the original DVD there is a slight drop in volume when compared to the original source.
Hmm, slight you say...
In my case it is near half the sound volume compared with the original.
But that's checking it with a PC through the soundcard.
Can you quantify "slight"?
Cheers
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  #45  
06-06-2005, 04:55 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
In my case it is near half the sound volume compared with the original.
I can confirm that the drop seems to be -3dB and that correspond to half the original volume.

Note: Zyphon, please check if the source is 5.1 or 2.0, this is important.
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  #46  
06-06-2005, 04:57 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Didn't you edited you message ? Because I'm sure that there was a "-azid(-g0.95 -G 1)" when I typed mine, and this is not the same "-G" parameter.
No I did not edit.
You can easily see that the post doesn't mention that it has been edited.
Though, sometimes I edit a post and phpBB doesn't flag the post as being edited
Anyway, so it seems that I got confused and used that parameter in OTA instead of AZID...
I'll try again tonight.
So, just for the record, the correct CLI would be:
Code:
BeSweet.exe -core( -input "E:\MATRIX_I\AC3\matrix_i AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps DELAY -23ms.ac3" -output "E:\MATRIX_I\AC3\matrix_i AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps DELAY -23ms-new.ac3" -logfile "E:\MATRIX_I\AC3\matrix_i AC3 T01 3_2ch 384Kbps DELAY -23ms.log" ) -azid( -g 0.95 -G 1 ) -ota( -d -23 ) -ac3enc( -b 224 -6ch )
Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
For the -L option : yes this is to send the LFE on the front speaker. That is to be used when you do 5.1 -> 2.0 conversion, in order to not lose the information from the .1 channel.
But in case of 5.1 -> 5.1 you must not do that because the bass form the LFE are already sent to the subwoofer (the .1 channel) so you must not have them also on the frontal else the result will be louder, in these frequencies.
Of course, this also depends on the capability for your front speakers to restore bass, that is generally lower than the one of the subwoofer.
Thanks for the clear explanation
I wonder why both BeSweetGUI and BeLight activate this parameter automatically .

NOTE: Edited to check if phpBB flags the post as having been edited Wink
NOTE2: It doesn't flag the post. I'll edit it again after someone else posts something after this one. Maybe that's what it needs to flag it .
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  #47  
06-06-2005, 05:33 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Though, sometimes I edit a post and phpBB doesn't flag the post as being edited .
This is the case when you are moderator and edit someone else post
But should have been to tired yestarday so .

Quote:
Anyway, so it seems that I got confused and used that parameter in OTA instead of AZID...
The parameter has to be used in ota. So what you did is correct. But the result you obtain is... weird

So the line you propose is wrong, and the correct one is the one you used in your first test. Just do it again, and verify it twice before you encode and check the final volume.

Edit: note, just to inform you, I never used again ac3enc after my post where I gave the volume solution. This is not something I can swear on my life so
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  #48  
06-06-2005, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
In my case it is near half the sound volume compared with the original.
But that's checking it with a PC through the soundcard.
Can you quantify "slight"?
Cheers
I just overflew the last posts but ...

The MORE dynamic an original AC3 5.1 Soundtrack gots, the less volume will be in the reencoding. Example a movie where at one Scene a biiiig and loud explosion occurs. This distortion is the max volume refrence for the encoder and so it lowers the volume of the whole Soundtrack so that 1 Sec. of explosion will affect the volume of the whole. You can affect this by entering the dynamic level compression.

In my case the DVD of "Der Untergang" (The last days of Hitler in his bunker..... I think its called "The Fall" in english) ... right at the beginning some german soldiers do carry a woodbox along a street in Berlin where suddenly a bomb drops and explodes .... that dynamic has not been that well mastered as it stands in no relation to the other explosion scenes in the movie (same bombing sitaution) ... means if I want to hear a normal Voice Volume during the movie .... that scene DOES blast my speakers! WOW!

A Reencoding also Postgain does result therefore in a much! more silent overall output. A simple dynamic compression did solve that in a significant way.

Im not that in the AC3 Structure BUT it seems that the BSI section in the AC3 Stream does affect the volume for each channel while decoding in the SAP. So: It would be nice (if Im right) to have the option to parse the BSI header of an AC3 (like besweet does in its log) AND to modify that BSI header so we do end up in what we want.
Do compare the BSI parsing of besweet as you can see that more db's are parsed out of the orig BSI and the reencoded BSI gots less values in its header!??! And ?!? could this be an idea?!
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  #49  
06-06-2005, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Do compare the BSI parsing of besweet as you can see that more db's are parsed out of the orig BSI and the reencoded BSI gots less values in its header!??! And ?!? could this be an idea?!
I really not sure the problem is only in the BSI values of the header else this should have been fixed since a long time. Don't you think ?
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  #50  
06-06-2005, 06:58 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Hey, that's neat
Brand and model?
Well it's not an expensive Brand. The Brand is Funai and the model is DBVR-5500. It is a VCR/DVD Combo.

It plays all my KDVD, KVCD & KSVCD's very well and does the jobs that I ask of it. Plus I can play MP3 also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Hmm, slight you say...
In my case it is near half the sound volume compared with the original.
But that's checking it with a PC through the soundcard.
Can you quantify "slight"?
Cheers
Well it is hard to be precise but I would say just over half of that of the original volume, please note though this audio was derived from PackShot, I did not use the manual commandline method as mentioned here.

EDIT: Could someone recommend a good commercial ac3 creator other than SoftEncode?
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  #51  
06-06-2005, 07:19 AM
AlexandreBH AlexandreBH is offline
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Zyphon,
freeware to test : http://www.germanixsoft.de/files/GXT2_Setup.exe

http://www.germanixsoft.de

The GX::Transcoder is a flexible audio converter software, which is able to convert in a batch mode between a lot of audio formats. Additionally the Transcoder uses plugins to add more functions for transforming and playing audio files.

The GX::Transcoder in it's standard version is able to en- and decode MP1, MP3, MP2, MPC, OGG Vorbis, PCM up to 7.1 Channel, G.721, G.723, G.726, G.729, ADPCM, GSM, VOX, DSP, VQF and RAW files as well as decoding QuickTime MOV and QT files. There are also AddIns available, which extends the Transcoder to handle the formats AAC, M4A, M4P4, LA, LPAC, WMA, TTA, OptimFrog, WavPack, FLAC, rkAudio, Real Audio, Speex, Bonk Audio and Shorten. There are plans to support even more audio formats. The transcoder also contains a video converter. This converter can transcoder between all installed avi codecs, mpeg with dvd, vcd and svs extension and wma video files.

The GX::Transcoder can transfer the tags ID3v1, ID3v2, APE v1 and v2, Vorbis Comments, FLAC and WMA Tags.


The GX::Transcoder is Freeware.

What's New in This Release:

* [FIX] the ogg and flac plugin now registerd correct
* [ADD] you can download the help file out of the software
* [FIX] fixed memory leak in the wav plugin
* [ADD] setting for automatic ejecting of the cd rom after grabbing
* [ADD] setting for automatic selecting all tracks in the grabber after change the cd
* [ADD] changes some setup settings
* [ADD] all files now written in the programm directory and subs - not in the system directory
* [INF] Best you uninstall the last beta version first! No update!


no freeware: vegas(sony) and
lots of guides and tools(some are free) in doom9 audio forum!
Jorge send regards!(i told him about this thread yesterday)
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  #52  
06-06-2005, 07:29 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexandreBH
Oh my god. I have this tool installed on my PC since weeks and didn't remember why I installed it

Quote:
The GX::Transcoder in it's standard version is able to en- and decode MP1, MP3, MP2, MPC, OGG Vorbis, PCM up to 7.1 Channel, G.721, G.723, G.726, G.729, ADPCM, GSM, VOX, DSP, VQF and RAW files as well as decoding QuickTime MOV and QT files. There are also AddIns available, which extends the Transcoder to handle the formats AAC, M4A, M4P4, LA, LPAC, WMA, TTA, OptimFrog, WavPack, FLAC, rkAudio, Real Audio, Speex, Bonk Audio and Shorten.
No mention anywhere about AC3 so. That explains surely why I did not test it finally.

So, what about AC3
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  #53  
06-06-2005, 07:37 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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@AlexandreBH

Wow thanks Freeware is even better!

No mention of ac3 as of yet but I guess they could implement that in one of their updates.

Thanks I must try out this tool.
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  #54  
06-06-2005, 07:51 AM
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Phil, .....
There seems also another alternative but using Graphedit:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...&highlight=ac3

FFdshow seems also to have AC3 encoding as its based on liba52/libavcodec .... so it "should" also work with ac3 input.

- Setting up the Dshow Merit so FFdshowAudio Codec works as the AC3 decoding unit.
- Setting in the Graph the needed things to decompress to channels and also FFdshow to output Ac3
- Finally applying a filewriter at the end of the chain to safe the stream as .ac3

Also we could try to let ac3filter decoding (seems to have more options) and FFdshow (then with raw 6ch input) encoding to ac3 .... thats like mentioned above if you do manually first decode AC3 to 6 ch Wav and then encoding to ac3.

Yep, again the Libavcodec ... but who knows what happens
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  #55  
06-06-2005, 07:56 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
FFdshow seems also to have AC3 encoding as its based on liba52/libavcodec .... so it "should" also work with ac3 input.
Pro already mentioned mencoder can do ac3 but I never have any precision on this.
Perhaps someone has informations to add ?

Quote:
Also we could try to let ac3filter decoding (seems to have more options) and FFdshow (then with raw 6ch input) encoding to ac3 .... thats like mentioned above if you do manually first decode AC3 to 6 ch Wav and then encoding to ac3.
The main question is : is it abble to encode in 5.1 ? That's where I don't have any clues.

Note: just a reminder : AC3 is under patent and you should pay a fee to Dolby Inc to encode in AC3. This is perhaps why no free tool but ac3enc delivers a 5.1 stream
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  #56  
06-06-2005, 08:41 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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When compiling FFmpeg you can set Liba52 "de"coding active and by that FFmpeg changes from GPL to LGPL or something like that (dont ask me whats that about *lol)

Mencoder lies on FFmpeg in its de and encodings BUT maybe mencoder does handle the streamhandling inside different. I should go into that parameter list in the mencoder manual again.

AC3Filter cant encode, but FFdshowAudio .... all do base on libavcodec, but as said, maybe "within" FFdshow AC3 Encoder things could come out different.

Not yet testet, ... but an alternative.

I never understand WHY programmers didnt got into Libavcodec to become a fully DVD compilant mpeg2 engine, or also the Ac3enc.dll .... is it that difficult for a Crack "approaching" for fixing that Problem like Petercheat did at least in his "approaches" on Libavcodec. Hmmmmm

AAC Audio
NeroVideo
SnowVideo

.... are IMHO nice approches and do serve AFAIK better outputs, BUT WHAT gives me such a format IF my DVDplayer in DVDmode doesnt support it. Im sick of all these Player Brands which do promote their Models "XVID/DIVX" GMC QuarterPixel supported. After half a year a new approach on the opensource sector is available and suddenly you got an "outdated" player immideately. Cause no standard was given.
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  #57  
06-06-2005, 01:16 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Pro already mentioned mencoder can do ac3 but I never have any precision on this.
Perhaps someone has informations to add ?

The main question is : is it abble to encode in 5.1 ? That's where I don't have any clues.
Did anyboydy test SKAS

Libavcodec yes can encode ac3 5.1 audio, and with that tool you can fix audio volumen.
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  #58  
06-06-2005, 01:26 PM
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Does it use the ac3enc.dll for generating AC3s or do u generate a commandline for mncoder.exe in your tool?
Anyhow both do base on the exact same ffmpeg core, ... but Id like to test also a mencoder commandline.
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  #59  
06-06-2005, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Does it use the ac3enc.dll for generating AC3s or do u generate a commandline for mncoder.exe in your tool?
Anyhow both do base on the exact same ffmpeg core, ... but Id like to test also a mencoder commandline.
I don't remember now the exact way (I did that tool a time ago ),
but this night I'll will check the code and will post it here if there is a mencoder command line.
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  #60  
06-06-2005, 02:49 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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I'm in for a SKAS trial tonight too .
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