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  #1  
12-07-2005, 11:44 PM
totonho03 totonho03 is offline
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Hi:
I would like to legally download a musical piece from Schubert - have to find it first - but do not really know where to go, or which site should be used for this purpose (I am afraid to send my credit card information to any unknown site).
Any words of wisdom will be appreciated.
Thanks and regards
Otto
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  #2  
12-08-2005, 05:53 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Schubert in the public domain. Go on any p2p software and DL it.
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  #3  
12-08-2005, 06:48 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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I'm not sure about how this works. A piece of music by Schubert certainly is in public domain, but a particular recording maybe not - the performer problably has his own rights. Like, Alexandre Dumas is in public domain, and you can download "The Count of Monte Cristo" from project Guttemberg, but it's not legal to download the movie from a p2p.

I think the same applies to sheet music. Schubert is in public domain, OK, so you can edit your own copy of his music and distribute, but you can't scan a particular edition and distribute it.

You can look for sites of players/groups that offer free downloads. Amazon offers some free downloads too, here's what I've found:

Quote:
1. "Ave Maria (Schubert)" ~ Joseph C. Moorman
Date Added: 08/09/04 | Format:
Avg. Customer Rating: 3.5 out of 5 stars
(Rate this item)

2. "Franz Schubert: Fantasy in F minor, D.940" ~ Elena Hammel
Date Added: 04/18/03 | Format:
(Rate this item)

3. "Ave Maria - Schubert" ~ The O'Neill Brothers
Date Added: 05/10/02 | Format:
(Rate this item)

4. "Ave Maria (Schubert)" ~ James Hill
Date Added: 08/24/03 | Format:
(Rate this item)
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  #4  
12-08-2005, 07:02 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR
I'm not sure about how this works. A piece of music by Schubert certainly is in public domain, but a particular recording maybe not - the performer problably has his own rights.
No-one can claim that a piece of music in the public domain is his just because he played it. (at least in the countries I know, some legal particularities can exist in some places ).

Quote:
Like, Alexandre Dumas is in public domain, and you can download "The Count of Monte Cristo" from project Guttemberg, but it's not legal to download the movie from a p2p.
The movie is not the book.

Quote:
I think the same applies to sheet music. Schubert is in public domain, OK, so you can edit your own copy of his music and distribute, but you can't scan a particular edition and distribute it.
Are we talking about the mp3 or a paper scan ?
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  #5  
12-08-2005, 02:23 PM
totonho03 totonho03 is offline
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Hello again:

Thank you for your posts. I will look at Amazon to see if they have the music I want..........
I have never downloaded anything on p2p basis, and am afraid that I may be doing something not legally permissable, not to mention that I have no idea which p2p software is the one to use.........
Thanks again

Otto
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  #6  
12-08-2005, 06:24 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Any music that is >100 years old, falls into public domain.
So you may download freely ANY music which is older that 100 years old, no matter if it's interpreted by a single artist, or by a whole orchestra

-kwag
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  #7  
12-09-2005, 06:42 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR
I'm not sure about how this works. A piece of music by Schubert certainly is in public domain, but a particular recording maybe not - the performer problably has his own rights.
No-one can claim that a piece of music in the public domain is his just because he played it. (at least in the countries I know, some legal particularities can exist in some places ).
Sure no one can claim that the music is his, but he can claim that the performance / interpretation is his. And [subjective] in my opinion it's not absurd. The interpretation can be just as (or even more) important as the composition in classical music and the performers and conductors need to be played somehow.[/subjective]

I don't know what the law says (even in my own country), that's why I suggested caution before assuming it's legal.

If you look at the back of a classical music CD

http://www.sandracarlock.com/images/tray.gif

You're going to find a symbol somewhere.

On the other hand, I know the theaters here in Brazill stoped playing modern music as ambient music before the sessions start and now only play classical music, and that this change was due to copyright isuues.

Quote:
Quote:
Like, Alexandre Dumas is in public domain, and you can download "The Count of Monte Cristo" from project Guttemberg, but it's not legal to download the movie from a p2p.
The movie is not the book.
OK, the movie is not the book, is an adaptation of the book.

But... What about an audio book with someone reading the book? Would this be free for download? What's the diference to a musical recording?

And if you scanned a printed copy of the book and posted the scan as PDF would this be free for download?

Quote:
Quote:
I think the same applies to sheet music. Schubert is in public domain, OK, so you can edit your own copy of his music and distribute, but you can't scan a particular edition and distribute it.
Are we talking about the mp3 or a paper scan ?
[/quote]

I this last paragraph I'm talking about the paper (partitur).

PS>

I just did a google search and found this:

http://www.rediscovery.us/faqredisc.htm
Quote:
Surprisingly, many classical recordings issued before 1972 are not protected by copyright. Law in this area is extremely convoluted, because before 1972, the first "fixation" of sound (the original master tapes) was eligible for protection, but the records and tapes made from them were not. Thus, an LP or tape issued for public sale before 1972 is public domain and can be freely used for any purpose--as long as the music contained therein is also public domain. If you wish a thorough explanation of this complicated issue, we recommended you check this copyright page at the R-VCR website. We have no connection with them, but their elucidation of the law as it applies to classical music recordings is well worth examining.
http://www.r-vcr.com/music/copyright/index.htm

http://www.r-vcr.com/music/copyright/opinion.htm

Quote:
The phonorecord copyright applies only to the produced and distributed product:

1. Its copyright term begins at the time of production of the phonorecord, without respect to or consideration of the date of composer's copyright or the date or location that the original performance was recorded.
2. It enjoys full copyright protection even if the underlying composition was in the public domain, or even if it was made without the composer's permission.
3. It enjoys full copyright protection even if the underlying fixed original recordings were made prior to 1972, or may have have fallen into public domain.

Some classical recordings on CD with full phonorecord protection are actually made from old 1950's performances that fell into public domain prior to 1972. The "Masters" never die, they just get re-mixed. And of course, it is the producers of these gems that are solely entitled to profit from their commercial exploitation. Phonorecords were produced prior to 1972 by license of the Composer whose copyright effectively determined the disposition of the phonorecord. It is a situation identical to book publication. When the author's copyrights expire, the public can freely exploit any derived version. If new a book is published that contains public domain material, it remains public domain because the mechanical act of running a printing press does not create, only a person can do that. Usually a publisher of out-of-rights materials will add features such as a forward, illustration drawings, cover-art and story revisions, these added items (considered by themselves) can have copyright protection. Just because a volume may carry a copyright notice, does not always mean that parts of it are not already in public domain. A clever trick that is legal and often useful. Phonorecords published prior to 1972 often contain copyrighted materials such as cover-art, liner notes and of course a trademark for the company, like "Columbia". Incidently "Columbia" is the trademark for EMI in England, the principle competitor for "Columbia" in the United States.
So, it seems, you can download it freely, but only if it's a rip of an LP recorded prior to 1972. Because after 1972 the RECORDING has a copyright.
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  #8  
12-11-2005, 02:59 PM
totonho03 totonho03 is offline
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Hello GFR:

Quote:
You can look for sites of players/groups that offer free downloads. Amazon offers some free downloads too, here's what I've found
I have tried Amazon, but the only way I may be able to download free samples is by subscribing to a 14 days free trial in one of the companies downloading mp3s.
Question: Is this how you were able to download the pieces mentioned i your post?

Thanks

Otto
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  #9  
12-12-2005, 05:38 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totonho03
Hello GFR:

Quote:
You can look for sites of players/groups that offer free downloads. Amazon offers some free downloads too, here's what I've found
I have tried Amazon, but the only way I may be able to download free samples is by subscribing to a 14 days free trial in one of the companies downloading mp3s.
Question: Is this how you were able to download the pieces mentioned i your post?

Thanks

Otto
No, I dindn't subscribe to anything, but I bought some books (a long time ago - now their shipping to Brazil is too expensive).

BTW only one of that samples was a full song

Did you find out the name of the piece you're looking after?
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  #10  
12-12-2005, 02:56 PM
totonho03 totonho03 is offline
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Hello GFR:

Thank you for your reply.
A couple of days ago I tried Amazon's free download, with the results mentionesd in my last post. I will try them again either today and tomorrow.

The songs that I am looking for are:
Schubert's serenade -
Christmas song: Holy night, but in German, I believe that it is called:
"Stille nacht", and finally:
Schubert's Ave maria................

Thanks again and best regards

Otto
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  #11  
12-13-2005, 05:51 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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Good news is that the Ave Maria is free at Amazon:

http://anon.amazon.speedera.net/anon...20Schubert.mp3

If I find any of the others I'll PM you. Stille Natch problably is not that hard.
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