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-   -   DVD-R on a CD-RW Drive (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/author/4488-dvd-cd-rw.html)

Paul0889 07-12-2003 05:40 PM

DVD-R on a CD-RW Drive
 
Today i was bored so i went out and bought a blank dvd-r just to see if it would work on my cd-rw drive just for the heck of it. To my suprise it worked! My drive is a GCE 8420B. I recorded a kvcd on the dvd-r succesfully. The only thing was it took almost a whole hour just to burn it to the disc. Has anyone else ever tried this?

jorel 07-12-2003 07:01 PM

8O
Paul0889.....

dvd-r on cdrw drive?
works?

please, more (big) details :!:

ovg64 07-12-2003 07:30 PM

What i want to know Paul is does it play on your home DVD player :?:

Paul0889 07-12-2003 09:03 PM

Yes it did play fine. My dvd player is a Sony DVP-NS 300 and it also played fine on my Norcent 300

jorel 07-12-2003 09:17 PM

ok Paul0889
:wink:
please,more details like:
what program was used to burn and
how this program read the free size of the dvd-r before burn?
burn at 2,4,8 or more x?
what was the file size burned in mb?
did you close the dvd-r,session....?
after burn still have free size?
read in dvd drive and cdr drive?
was burned as vcd,svcd...what was?
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

and more...you wrote too:
"The only thing was it took almost a whole hour just to burn it to the disc."
what velocity you choose to burn it?

thanks

ovg64 07-12-2003 10:52 PM

Ok i got sony DVP-NS 315, so it must be a VCD that you maid cause my doesn't read svcd, but its hard to bolive that a cdwr drive would burn a DVD-R. :?

willy_annand 07-13-2003 09:24 AM

Re: DVD-R on a CD-RW Drive
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul0889
Today i was bored so i went out and bought a blank dvd-r just to see if it would work on my cd-rw drive just for the heck of it. To my suprise it worked! My drive is a GCE 8420B. I recorded a kvcd on the dvd-r succesfully. The only thing was it took almost a whole hour just to burn it to the disc. Has anyone else ever tried this?

The timing is correct, I have a 2X LG DVD Writer and it takes about 1 hour to burn a full DVD-R.

When you say a "KVCD", which flavour of template? One for VCD, SVCD or DVD?

Paul0889 07-13-2003 04:23 PM

I did the kvcd*3 template only i changed it to mpeg 2 and i raied the cq to 100 and the mihn. bitrate to 3000 and my ma. bitrate to 3000. i was just testing it out to see if it worked

jorel 07-13-2003 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul0889
I did the kvcd*3 template only i changed it to mpeg 2 and i raied the cq to 100 and the mihn. bitrate to 3000 and my ma. bitrate to 3000. i was just testing it out to see if it worked

Paul0889,
:)
can you answer my questions in my second post please?
i'm curious with all details!

:wink:

Paul0889 07-13-2003 06:50 PM

I used Nero. I did it as if i were to burn an svcd only this time in preferences i changed it from a cd-r to dvd-r and then i burned

jorel 07-13-2003 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul0889
I used Nero. I did it as if i were to burn an svcd only this time in preferences i changed it from a cd-r to dvd-r and then i burned

wow,seems simple Paul0889
:)
did you burn the full dvd with some mpegs?

i'm stup my friend,if i don't got big details i will loose,
and your result is fantastic...i want to try it too.

:D

audi2honda 07-13-2003 07:30 PM

What? This can't be true.

Has anyone else been able to duplicate these results?

totonho03 07-13-2003 07:38 PM

Hello Paul0889:

I believe that you are answering the questions as they are posted in this thread. Would it be possible for you to give us a list of your detailed steps? ie, the programs you used to create your kvcd disc, how you burnt it, which program you used to burn your creation, etc, etc. I believe that I can paste the steps that so far you have posted, but it will help me a lot to see the entire picture in one frame.

Thanks a lot

Totonho03

Paul0889 07-13-2003 09:42 PM

My CD-RW drive is a GCE 8420B and my two dvd players are a Sony DVP NS-300 and a Norcent 300. I encoded a movie called May into a kvcd using the 528*480 template but changed it to MPEG 2. I raised the min. bitrate to 3000 and the max. bitrate to 3000. It all looked etremely good and in fact it looked eactly like the original. When it was done, the file was about 1.2GB. Then i opened nero and set it up as if i was buring an svcd. Only in the preferences section, i changed the format to DVD-R and then i burned at 8x. It plays great on my Sony only near the end, it had a few odd blocks pop up. But on my norcent 300, it played beautifully without a single problem.

jorel 07-13-2003 11:41 PM

8O

incredible, fantastic, great :!:

:umbrella:

Paul0889, what audio bitrate you choose :?:

thanks.
:wink:

i will that my acer can do the same.

Paul0889 07-14-2003 05:30 AM

for audio i used 224 kbs.

jorel 07-14-2003 05:44 AM

224 kbs for audio is good cos space in this case isn't important.

thank you very much Paul0889
:wink:

i will try it today!
:D

ps:
of course if my burner can do it.....as i will!


@all
please, after positive results, post the label and model of the burner :!:

thank you all!
:wink:

totonho03 07-14-2003 10:42 AM

Thanks a lot Paulo
Totonho03

jorel 07-14-2003 09:03 PM

:(

my Acer 24x10x40 can't "see" the dvd-r!

:( :( :(

:!:

someone try it too :?:

totonho03 07-14-2003 09:49 PM

Jorel:

What is your set up? I am sure that you have already mentioned, but I was wondering if you are using -R or +R discs. Does it make any sense to try this with +r gear?

Kwag, one silly request: Would it be possible to open a threat asking the members to detail their set up? I can think of a couple of instances in which this info may be useable, particularly as an aid to troubleshooting problems. For Instance:
I have:

An IBM laptop; PIII 800 Mhz; 30 Giga HD; 512 RAM; a PCMCIA..IBM IEEE card; an external HP 200e writter +R(W) and an external Western Digital 120 G HD connected to the firewire card; W98SE OS. An RCA dvd player -RCS 215P, which is dying, that is why I am interested in purchasing the units that you guys are talking about; and a Toshiba 1200U that does not like +R, +RW and some of the kvcd templates.

Please let me know if this request is of any use to the members of the forum or not...

Thanks

Best regards

Totonho03

dazedconfused 07-14-2003 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totonho03
Kwag, one silly request: Would it be possible to open a threat asking the members to detail their set up? I can think of a couple of instances in which this info may be useable, particularly as an aid to troubleshooting problems.

Hey totonho03,

Just my $0.02 on your idea: It sounds like a pretty good idea, but rather than doing it in a thread (which many people might not see), maybe it might be better if Kwag added some space for this info into the User Profile? :idea: That way, every time someone posts about something that might possibly be system-related, all you would have to do is click on the Profile button that appears in the header of one their posts to quickly view their system specs. Seems a bit easier that way than starting a long thread devoted specifically to system specs....in thread form, a person would need to scroll through every single user's post in that thread until they found the specific user's post that they wanted to see and compare specs with.

Still a good troubleshooting idea though totonho03! :) I don't know how easy or difficult this might be for Kwag to implement into the board though :?: Perhaps a new separate "System Specs" button rather than just using the "Profile" button might make it even more clear for people to see/use? I don't know that there's really that much need for this, but it certainly couldn't hurt anything! (and could turn out to be quite handy for troubleshooting Q&A's...heck, some people may just enjoy bragging about their systems a bit too! :wink: ).

-d&c

totonho03 07-14-2003 11:19 PM

Thanks for your response d&c.

Your idea sounds very good. What I was going to do was to try to transfer this info into an excel sheet, and then with it you can sorted by equipment, OS, etc, etc.

Do not know how much this idea will be used, and if it is not going to be used at all, then the amount of work that this will create will go to waste........
Thanks and regards

Totonho03

jorel 07-14-2003 11:42 PM

Otto,
you ask me:
"What is your set up? I am sure that you have already mentioned, but I was wondering if you are using -R or +R discs. Does it make any sense to try this with +r gear? "

i only try one dvd-r that my friend send to me.
i try the adjusts in nero like Paul0889 post
but my Acer is "blind" for dvds and the Sansung of my friend is "blind" too.
my friend have Pioneer dvd burner and we check the media before tests.
i'm using win98se and he is using XPsp1!
tomorrow i call my friend again to send all dvd medias models!

:wink:

ak47 07-15-2003 01:26 PM

Here is what I think and I am not saying your wrong Paul. But I think it is more reasonable that all you did is and extreme overburn. I think that because CD-r's and DVD-r's drives lasers are made of a different size, there both made in nm(nanometers) which are extremly small, and Since DVD-r's are about 6.87 times the size the laser has to be 6.87 times smaller then CD-r drives. Also it would be easy to overburn a DVD-r since the technology in it is much more advance and would be able to withstand more. I do have a question for you Paul what program you use and if I can ask can you try using Nero and close the wizard, click recorder, medium-info and at the top right of the Disc info look at the available space(I got a feeling its going to say 90min). Give that a try again not saying your wrong but in technological terms it just isn't possible.

jorel 07-22-2003 06:38 AM

dream is over :?:

:roll:

only Paul0889 got results?








:ideasmiley:
hey Paul0889, do you "sale" your burner?

ak47 07-22-2003 01:06 PM

Paul I want to know your results. I just want to know if what you have done is possible or you made a mistake (that’s ok if you made a mistake we all make mistakes I know I have). Also I could have been a fluke made by GCE giving you a CD burner that is capable of doing that. I am sorry to say but I truly don't think a CD burner is capable of burring DVD's.

Be glad to here from you,
AK

reman 07-25-2003 02:57 PM

Quote:

Why can you record more information on a Blank DVDR disc than on a CD-R disc?
The extra capacity of a DVD-R disc comes from smaller track pitch and smaller data marks (pits). The track pitch on a 3.95 GB DVD-R disc is 0.8 microns, one-half the track pitch of a CD-R. The track pitch on a 4.7 GB disc is 0.74 microns. Hardware changes in the recorders allow the creation of data marks approximately one-half the size of those made on CD-R media (0.40 microns versus 0.834 microns). The recording laser's wavelength and focusing lens' numerical aperture were changed. Because of this, a CD-R/CD-RW drive cannot be used to write DVD-R media. Additionally, DVD-R substrates are injection molded to one-half the thickness of a CD-R. Two DVD-R substrates are bonded together creating multiple recording surfaces.
You cannot make a DVD on a CDR. You can make an SVCD with DVD params on a CDR but no matter what you cannot make a DVD disk. Sorry.

ak47 07-25-2003 03:27 PM

Quote:

Why can you record more information on a Blank DVDR disc than on a CD-R disc?
The extra capacity of a DVD-R disc comes from smaller track pitch and smaller data marks (pits). The track pitch on a 3.95 GB DVD-R disc is 0.8 microns, one-half the track pitch of a CD-R. The track pitch on a 4.7 GB disc is 0.74 microns. Hardware changes in the recorders allow the creation of data marks approximately one-half the size of those made on CD-R media (0.40 microns versus 0.834 microns). The recording laser's wavelength and focusing lens' numerical aperture were changed. Because of this, a CD-R/CD-RW drive cannot be used to write DVD-R media. Additionally, DVD-R substrates are injection molded to one-half the thickness of a CD-R. Two DVD-R substrates are bonded together creating multiple recording surfaces.
Ya thats kind of what I said here
Quote:

Here is what I think and I am not saying your wrong Paul. But I think it is more reasonable that all you did is and extreme overburn. I think that because CD-r's and DVD-r's drives lasers are made of a different size, there both made in nm(nanometers) which are extremly small, and Since DVD-r's are about 6.87 times the size the laser has to be 6.87 times smaller then CD-r drives. Also it would be easy to overburn a DVD-r since the technology in it is much more advance and would be able to withstand more. I do have a question for you Paul what program you use and if I can ask can you try using Nero and close the wizard, click recorder, medium-info and at the top right of the Disc info look at the available space(I got a feeling its going to say 90min). Give that a try again not saying your wrong but in technological terms it just isn't possible.
I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't completely wrong so I didn't look like and @ss so I said I could be wrong. Thanks reman for getting exact details.

jorel 07-25-2003 03:36 PM

trying to turn it all clear:

i think that everybody know that a cd burner can't burn a dvd.
but Paul0889 post that he got this results!
and with big details.
eletronic is my work for 30 years and i know how it all works :!:
we give great atention cos he was impressive posting his
"incredibles" results giving big details.
than everybody test it trying to got the same and now
we all think that it was a great mistake of Paul0889.
maybe he have a combo or...who knows?!?!?!? :?
is not clear :!:


:wink:

ak47 07-25-2003 04:04 PM

again

Quote:

Here is what I think and I am not saying your wrong Paul. But I think it is more reasonable that all you did is and extreme overburn. I think that because CD-r's and DVD-r's drives lasers are made of a different size, there both made in nm(nanometers) which are extremly small, and Since DVD-r's are about 6.87 times the size the laser has to be 6.87 times smaller then CD-r drives. Also it would be easy to overburn a DVD-r since the technology in it is much more advance and would be able to withstand more. I do have a question for you Paul what program you use and if I can ask can you try using Nero and close the wizard, click recorder, medium-info and at the top right of the Disc info look at the available space(I got a feeling its going to say 90min). Give that a try again not saying your wrong but in technological terms it just isn't possible.
I think all he did was an extreme overburn. 1.2 gb is possible especial if the cd burner thought the dvd was a cd and again since dvd is more dense it would be easier to overburn. Also he could lie about it, but I don't think paul is that type of man to carry on a 2 page lie.

jorel 07-25-2003 04:17 PM

he could lie about it?

i don't think...for me is a mistake :!:

is :arrow: impossible a cdr burner do the job cos everything is different
in the media,in the burner,in the laser beam,in the tracks...everything :!:
my poor english can' t help me to put the technical explanations!
the laser beam work different for each case. :wink:
sorry, i can't find the right works to write.

see that some (means lots) of cdr burners, can't see more than 700mb
and don't acept cds with 90 or 99 minutes,than,
is impossible read the media with more than 4gbs
with more tracks in the same space.....right?

:wink:

ak47 07-25-2003 04:34 PM

I think I get what you said. The thing is the CD burner or a CD-ROM can't change the size of the laser to read a disk the size of a DVD. When you overburn a CD all you are doing is squeezing more data at the end. That’s why DVD players can't read an overburn CD because the laser can't reach far enough to read the end data so it acts like there is no more data ending the movie earlier. I don't know how media is made on a CD or DVD so I can't tell you what’s the difference between a 90 min and an 80 min. I could be wrong but I am giving you my best guess which I pretty sure I am right.

Also Jorel I know what it's like with bad grammar and spelling since I am still in high school, but what I found out what is good is using a program like MS word or even email to correct my spelling and grammar.

jorel 07-25-2003 04:48 PM

again my friend ak47,sorry my horrible english!
:oops:

are you still in high school?
great, i never did a high school...

but i try to turn it more complicated:
:roll: ... :lol:

do you know any cdr burner that can read vobs and or ac3 :?:

please answer:
yes or no and why?
when you answer this questions, you will know why it don't work :!:

:wink:

ak47 07-25-2003 05:14 PM

Yes I am going to be a senior next year in high school which mean's its my last year of it. I am doing a program in HS that teaches stuff about computers so I can get certification like A+ and next year Net+. So I try to help people on this website as much as I can because that's going to be my future job (well it’s more of trouble shooting hardware and OS). But the question you asked about a CD burner can read vobs and ac3 is yes, because all you need to do is make the vob or the ac3 file small enough to fit on a CD-R making you able to read it. I know a lot of people get thing confused about things like that. I know people that think a CD burner can't read divx, it just depends on how large the file(s) is, all divx is, is it's just a type of format. So technically all CD-R burners can read any format it just it has to fit on a CD-R.

jorel 07-25-2003 05:26 PM

ok,
i will send to you a little vob to you burn and read in your cdr
burner or dvd player! :roll:
after this please,post your results.

wait a few hours,i'm doing tests with CQMatic now.

:wink:

jorel 07-25-2003 06:02 PM

i was thinking in this idea, then i ask you ak47:


you wrote:
"all CD-R burners can read any format it just it has to fit on a CD-R."
8O

means that if one dvd have 4 gbs and i mix and cut the vobs
using progs like vobedit and ifoedit, cut in 5 sizes with 800mb
for each size and burn in 5 cdrs in cdr burner,
my cdrburner and my dvd player will play it?

if yes,is a great idea cos 5 cdrs for one great movie with extreme
quality(means..like the original) will be fantastic.
the result will be:
great sound,great image and not too big size comparing
with very good svcds in 3 cds using cce for example.
for this case for me is use of "no sense" to make 3 svcds,don't?

why "break the head" making scripts,time to encode,
adjust the system with big and boring details,
bitrates,encoders,audio encoders,tons of lectures,
to loose quality in 3 svcds if with 5 cdrs with vobs you
got the best without all this work :?:

i'm only doing questions to remove doubts, ok?
nothing fight with you my friend, you're welcome :!:

:wink:

Avalon 07-25-2003 06:03 PM

Here are the datas about this LG-Burner LGEUSA.COM.

I still don't belive it!!!! Did You overburn or what. In Nero You can only setup DVD if You have a DVD-Burner inside... I do have one! Something is wrong here.

Here the differences about DVD and CD:

Aufbau einer DVD und CD

How it Work's: CD

Technical Guide DVD

I think You took a DVD-R or? ...

:Drunk:

Dialhot 07-25-2003 06:05 PM

May I say a word ? Yes ? Cool...

CD Burner do not read Divx nor Vob, nor even SVCD. They just read 0 and 1. That is the computer that receive this 0 and 1 that know you what they represent.

So Jorel, you CD burner is abble to read Vob or ac3 as soon as they are burned on the medium in a way the computer will be abble to understand them !

If you put a Vob file "as it" on a DVD-R, your DVD won't be abble to read it either ! You have to respect the structure of a DVD video : video_ts directrory, audio_ts directory...

jorel 07-25-2003 06:45 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

thanks Phil and Avalon!

i know,i know..... :arrow: for this reason i did that questions :!:

as i wrote in the other post is
:arrow: impossible burn in cdr burner one dvd.
if all players can play everything,why build differents players?
one for cdr-w, another for dvds,.etc,etc.
i work with eletronics for more than 30 years,
i am a technic eletronic.....is my job :!:
i know how it works in structure.....
hey, was hard to find this in the dictionary.
:lol:
this is the problem for me,explain it all in english.

see the result when you try to burn a dvd in cdr burner:

:expert:

:lol:

ak47 07-25-2003 07:23 PM

Well I got a question now when you buy a DVD-R does it have anything on it already (Like lining for the burner to fit in pit between each row of bits). Cause I thought when you buy a DVD-R all it is, is some type of plastic with a type of lead that is really strong, just like a CD-R, but with more strength to hold more data in.

Is that better


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