Quantcast KVCD on a DVD? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
05-08-2002, 09:32 AM
digitalvideo digitalvideo is offline
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can i put multiple KVCD movies on a DVD-R?
i like kwags template because i get good quality in low space but i just bought a DVD writer and was wondering if i could take them and put them on a dvd if so what programs do i use to do this from what i heard in the forums i can probably get about 8 movies on a dvd and if i am lucky i want to get this to play on a dvd player but otherwise i can probably play it on my laptops dvd rom
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  #2  
05-08-2002, 03:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalvideo
can i put multiple KVCD movies on a DVD-R?
i like kwags template because i get good quality in low space but i just bought a DVD writer and was wondering if i could take them and put them on a dvd if so what programs do i use to do this from what i heard in the forums i can probably get about 8 movies on a dvd and if i am lucky i want to get this to play on a dvd player but otherwise i can probably play it on my laptops dvd rom
Hi digitalvideo:

You can put your video in a DVD-R, but you'll have to re-encode them to MPEG-2, it you want higher than 352x240.

DVD standard supports MPEG-1 but at 352x240. And I guess 352x288 PAL. Not sure there.

However, the audio has to be 48Khz, and not 44.1Khz, as we do in VCD's.

I have done some encoding with the template modified for MPEG-2 and the audio at 48Khz, and I get a full movie in about twice the space as the MPEG-1 KVCD template.

So a movie takes about 1.6GB. With that in mind, you should be able to fit 2 to 3 movies in one DVD-R at about the same quality as with the standard MPEG-1 KVCD template.

Mind you, the size difference for MPEG-2 is much larger, because the GOP structure is more strict for DVD. So we can't take advantage of the flexible sequence used in the GOP for KVCD, as far as compression.

Conclusion:

If you make a 352x480 MPEG-2 DVD compliant file, equivalent in quality as the one generated with TMPEG and KVCD MPEG-1 template, your file size will be about twice the size of the one created with the standard MPEG-1 KVCD template, for the same quality.

kwag
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  #3  
05-09-2002, 12:22 PM
digitalvideo digitalvideo is offline
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can you do just normal unaltered KVCD streams that have been created fo cds already as data on a DVD because then i can just open the files on my laptops DVD-ROM drive but other wise you idea is good if i want to create stuff for my portable DVD player thank you, digitalvideo
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05-09-2002, 12:37 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalvideo
can you do just normal unaltered KVCD streams that have been created fo cds already as data on a DVD because then i can just open the files on my laptops DVD-ROM drive but other wise you idea is good if i want to create stuff for my portable DVD player thank you, digitalvideo

And the answer is Yesssss!

If you just use the DVD-R as data storage, then just burn your KVCD'ed mpeg files to your DVD-R.

This way you can put 5 or 6 movies on a single DVD-R to watch on a PC or laptop.

How's that for space savings?.

kwag
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06-05-2002, 02:02 AM
syk2c11 syk2c11 is offline
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Kwag,
You said "if you want higher than 352x240, you will have to re-encode...". What if I am fine with 352x240 and want to put the encoded video into DVD-/+R, do I have to re-encode again? HOW can I change the Audio from 48kHz to 44.1kHz WITHOUT re-encoding the Video?? All I want to do is to put my encoded Mpeg-1 video (352x240; CQ=74) into DVD-/+R.
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  #6  
06-05-2002, 02:11 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syk2c11
Kwag,
You said "if you want higher than 352x240, you will have to re-encode...". What if I am fine with 352x240 and want to put the encoded video into DVD-/+R, do I have to re-encode again? HOW can I change the Audio from 48kHz to 44.1kHz WITHOUT re-encoding the Video?? All I want to do is to put my encoded Mpeg-1 video (352x240; CQ=74) into DVD-/+R.
syk2c11,

If you are going to put your video on a DVD as data, you don''t need to re-encode. But this is only usefull for playback on a computer.

If you want to make your MPEG-1 DVD compliant, you're going to have to re-encode the audio. If they are standard 352x240(28, you can de-mux with the tools in TMPEG. Then re-encode just the audio at 48Khz, and re-mux the video stream with the new 48Khz audio stream.

Now, there's a problem that you must be aware of. At least with MPEG-2's, the GOP must be no larger that 15 frames for PAL or 18 frames for NTSC.
I haven't tested a MPEG-1 for DVD compliance yet, so this is something you're going to have to try. I suggest to do the procedure above on the audio, and try with a DVD authoring program like DVDit or SpruceUp, and see if it will take your mpeg file.

good luck

kwag
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06-06-2002, 07:33 AM
syk2c11 syk2c11 is offline
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Kwag,
I have tried to put mpeg file (created by your standard kvcd template) into DVDit program. The mpeg file is 352x240 with CQ=74 (it is a 23.97 film), I de-multiplexed it by TMpeg, I have also re-encoded the audio from 44.1kHz to 48kHz.

I launch DVDit and select "Mpeg-1 complaint" project. DVDit does NOT like the Video, it says this "the video file seems to be a Mpeg file but it is unidentifiable as NTSC or PAL". So what is your suggestion to make kvcd to be competible with DVDit. I believe DVDit does not like 23.97. Is DVDit classify NTSC or PAL by looking at the frame rate (29.97 and 25)???
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06-06-2002, 11:18 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syk2c11
Kwag,
I have tried to put mpeg file (created by your standard kvcd template) into DVDit program. The mpeg file is 352x240 with CQ=74 (it is a 23.97 film), I de-multiplexed it by TMpeg, I have also re-encoded the audio from 44.1kHz to 48kHz.

I launch DVDit and select "Mpeg-1 complaint" project. DVDit does NOT like the Video, it says this "the video file seems to be a Mpeg file but it is unidentifiable as NTSC or PAL". So what is your suggestion to make kvcd to be competible with DVDit. I believe DVDit does not like 23.97. Is DVDit classify NTSC or PAL by looking at the frame rate (29.97 and 25)???
The problem is with the large GOP structure. You can't get the extended compression gained with the KVCD mpegs on a DVD.
You're going to have to re-encode with DVD compliant parameters, and you'r mpeg files will be fat. Very fat
Also, for MPEG-1 on a DVD, the size must be no larger than 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL.
For MPEG-2, you can use 352x480(576) ( half D1 ) or 720x480(576) ( full D1 )

kwag
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  #9  
06-13-2002, 12:10 PM
MoovyGuy MoovyGuy is offline
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Kwag,

So then what if we used your KDVD template and switched to half D1 for the outputting resolution. Obviously we would be able to lower the max bitrate a tad.

We should then be able to acheive 8 to 10 hours of video on a DVDr, right ?
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06-13-2002, 12:53 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoovyGuy
Kwag,

So then what if we used your KDVD template and switched to half D1 for the outputting resolution. Obviously we would be able to lower the max bitrate a tad.

We should then be able to acheive 8 to 10 hours of video on a DVDr, right ?
Yes and no. You'll probably fit between 6-7 hours. But it will not be DVD quality!. It will be more like SVCD quality.
Just set the MAX bit rate to 2,500Kbps and try it out.

kwag
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06-13-2002, 01:22 PM
Bud Bud is offline
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However, the audio has to be 48Khz, and not 44.1Khz, as we do in VCD's.


Kwag,

You can put 44.1 on DVD-R, I did a test with MyDVD of Hollow Man, changed your template to 44.1 and the CQ to 60, it played back great on a standard DVD-R.

Bud
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  #12  
06-13-2002, 01:39 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud
However, the audio has to be 48Khz, and not 44.1Khz, as we do in VCD's.


Kwag,

You can put 44.1 on DVD-R, I did a test with MyDVD of Hollow Man, changed your template to 44.1 and the CQ to 60, it played back great on a standard DVD-R.

Bud
Hi Bud:

What about the file size?. I don't know if I would change the sampling to 44.1Khz in my encodes, because that might be a problem with some DVD players. All DVD players will play correctly 48Khz, because that's the standard defined for DVD.

kwag
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06-13-2002, 01:45 PM
MoovyGuy MoovyGuy is offline
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Kwag:

6 to 7 hours on a DVDr would be great !! I realize that the quality would be SVCD like, but that would be perfect for stuff like digital TV captures and such ....

Later
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06-13-2002, 02:10 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoovyGuy
Kwag:

6 to 7 hours on a DVDr would be great !! I realize that the quality would be SVCD like, but that would be perfect for stuff like digital TV captures and such ....

Later
Well just do that!. I just did a little small test for you here.
I encoded a 30 second clip from the movie "The green mile". A low action scene.
Here are the results for file sizes:
With KDVD template as is: 11,121KB
With KDVD template, but MAX bit rate=2,500 and 352x480 ( half D1 ): 5,691KB

So there you have it. It looks pretty damn good too at 352x480!
So just make those two changes and have fun!.

kwag
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  #15  
06-13-2002, 03:00 PM
Bud Bud is offline
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Kwag,

I will test the audio when I get home from work today...will running the d2v through FitCD/AVISynth process make any difference in the overall file size?
I'll try that as well, just throught I would ask. Thanks

Aloha,
Bud
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  #16  
06-13-2002, 03:08 PM
MoovyGuy MoovyGuy is offline
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Kwag,

Thanks for the info.

The reason for wanting to know was basically for non action/sci fi stuff where you can get away with reducing the resolution.

You know, head movies, ie ... Comedies & chick flicks .....

This will help save some $$$. Now when blanks are 75 cents each I won't care anymore, but for now .....

Thanks again ...
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06-13-2002, 03:12 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud
Kwag,

I will test the audio when I get home from work today...will running the d2v through FitCD/AVISynth process make any difference in the overall file size?
I'll try that as well, just throught I would ask. Thanks

Aloha,
Bud
It shouldn't make a difference for the KDVD template, because you're making a 1 to 1 copy of the DVD aspect. But I use FitCD for everything now!

Saludos,
kwag
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