Quantcast Darkness from Avisynth? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-22-2004, 02:34 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Phil,....(and all)
a long time i posted that was using "levels" cos i see all my encodes loosing some brightness ( http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=16 )

now see that pictures...
from vob in vdubmpeg2: http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6026/vob.jpg
from this avisynth script (using dvd2avi176 project) :
mpeg2source("F:\a.D2V")
Crop(8,0,704,480)
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/541...ynthscript.jpg
see that loose not only the bright but it is fading the whole image (colors too).
the avisynth plugins folder is empty and was removed the avisynth_c.dll from the system.....just the same!
some more people have seamless problems and was posted here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...threadid=78220

comments and hints?
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  #2  
06-22-2004, 03:28 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
comments and hints?
Let me know if I understand well : the second picture was done with only an avisynth script that just loads the vob with a mpeg2dec3 command ? Right ?
That is not a frame extracted from and encoded mpeg, so there is no encoder in cause (tmpgenc or cce) ?

Okay, so the only thing that comes in my mind at the moment is that avisynth never produce any values outside the range [16..235]. You can do whatever you want, at least with internall commands, you will never produce somthing outside this range. Even "BlackClip" does not produce a clip with luma=0. It does a clip at luma=16.

That is perhaps the reason. But I have to test it by myself. I let you know.
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  #3  
06-22-2004, 04:13 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Let me know if I understand well : the second picture was done with only an avisynth script that just loads the vob with a mpeg2dec3 command ? Right ?
That is not a frame extracted from and encoded mpeg, so there is no encoder in cause (tmpgenc or cce) ?
big details Phil:
the second picture is from vob(ntsc dvd source) to dvd2avi176 project, using mpeg2dec3 (v1.10-nic-28/07/03) but the same result using any another mpeg2dec3 for avisynth 2.5x and without crop....or better if you load only the source without any crop or resize using ALL avisynth 2.5x versions,... only:
mpeg2source("x:\x.D2V")
nothing more in the .avs script, the results are always the same in my tests,
...image too dark and with colors faded
waiting your tests!
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  #4  
06-22-2004, 05:20 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
the second picture is from vob(ntsc dvd source) to dvd2avi176 project
Did you set the range to "PC scale" or "TV scale" in dvd2avi ? You should try with "PC scale".
This setting is in the video menu of dvd2avi but I don't remember exactly where.
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  #5  
06-22-2004, 06:16 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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@ Jorel

YEP! In DVD2AVI if setting Scale PCtoTV the luma will be keeped within the TV Luma range. Which btw is not a bad thing as a full luma range will screw up the view on your TV ... and a full RGB white could also do harm to your TV if its set up correctly in its luma (which is obligatory reference DVD).

But do you know in which state your source comes in? Some DVDs do got 0-100 and some others do keep the TV luma compilance. That can only be checked via Levels histogram for example. And DVD2AVI wont parse the luma of the whole input stream. Neither the encoder in its Luma Range setting. So If you will be 100% acurate, youll have to check the peak and low of your input (like I do in case of captures)

Look into the newest FitCD, there you can see the levels() command you can add to stretch the luma to PCscale or reverse.

You say a "Loss" of luma, ok, seen on PC Screen thats true, but as we do encode for TV purposes finally seen on the TV there wont be a loss as it will be "visually" compensated by the orig TV brightness.

To see a real difference and what really could be wrong, you would have to use a calibrated ClassA Monitor which costs a hell
But which TV is perfectly calibrated? And even if its calibrated correctly via a reference DVD youll never get that quality reference range like on a ClassA Monitor.

So... its the same as that subject about correct resizing: Cause (like mentioned by Phil) does anybody knows the actual state of correct PixAspectRatio and Luma/Hue of his TV?
EVEN if we would resize 100% correctly and scale the Luma correctly. Most user TVs will screw that up anyway.
The only Problem is, If your TV does screw up the Image (no mater if resized or Luma) in one direction, it would be fatal if the image processing before encoding is done ALSO in that wrong direction, cause that would end up in a double up screwed Image on TV later ... so theres still a reason of doing correct Luma scale and resizing before encoding
And there the "Philiosophy" starts
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  #6  
06-22-2004, 09:01 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Did you set the range to "PC scale" or "TV scale" in dvd2avi ? You should try with "PC scale".
This setting is in the video menu of dvd2avi but I don't remember exactly where.
Phil,
the picture posted was using PC scale but i can't see differences using tv scale. this settings in d2a are in video, "YUV->RGB" with "pc scale" or "tv scale" options.
see that new pictures with 80% of the size from

vobs:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5236/vobs.jpg

using pc scale in dvd2avi project:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7083/pcscale.jpg

using tv scale in dvd2avi project:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/516/tvscale.jpg


Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
@ Jorel
... so theres still a reason of doing correct Luma scale and resizing before encoding
yes ink,
all my encodes from all dvds are always dark comparing with the original dvds,
it happen with all sources (movies or cartoons) using PC scale or TV scale without any resize or filter in .avs script! i did lots of samples to compare encodes in tv trying to find the reason of that "darkness".
but before that tests, we can only "feel" that something is wrong after all job is done getting the dark and with faded colors(washed) pictures in tv ...(and i want to do all the job again) and believe me, i redo (from the begining)

Phil, ink and all:
for me,the picture from the vob have ~15% better color and ~10% more bright/contrast and we are loosing that details BEFORE we start to encode!
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  #7  
06-22-2004, 06:36 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
Phil, ink and all:
for me,the picture from the vob have ~15% better color and ~10% more bright/contrast and we are loosing that details BEFORE we start to encode!
Jorel, how did you take the snapshot from the avs script ? You load it into virtualdub ?
(I didn't have the time yet to do some tests, but I'm wondering why a such problem never came to my eyes).

In fact I want to know if you saw this problem when you play the script, then you decided to do the snapshot to show us the problem. Or did you discover the problem by comparing the snapshots ?
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  #8  
06-22-2004, 07:39 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
Phil, ink and all:
for me,the picture from the vob have ~15% better color and ~10% more bright/contrast and we are loosing that details BEFORE we start to encode!
Jorel, how did you take the snapshot from the avs script ? You load it into virtualdub ?
(I didn't have the time yet to do some tests, but I'm wondering why a such problem never came to my eyes).

In fact I want to know if you saw this problem when you play the script, then you decided to do the snapshot to show us the problem. Or did you discover the problem by comparing the snapshots ?
from back to front:
i "discover" a long time ago, maybe more than a year(was lucky or bad luck? ) when i was watching one of my encodes and feel that the image was too dark and load the dvd to compare....was different! for this reason i use "asharp" and "levels" in my encodes with short adjusts in gamma(levels) trying to restore the bright&color parameters but it's not a perfect solution...just help a little.

i did the snapshots from avs scripts (and from the vobs) in vdubmpeg2-->copy source to the clipboard--->paste in paint--->save as xx.jpg
the pictures show less details than the images in vdub or loading in all suported places that open the scripts and vobs, or the results of samples encoded in the tv or in pc!

see that i posted the same in d9 and Wilbert agree with my results and he did his own tests finding seamless results: (see my last post there too) http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...669#post514669
than he open another thread doing questions about this problem in dvd2avi thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78514
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  #9  
06-22-2004, 07:48 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Okay, so the problem is not due to how the snapshot where done. That's what I wanted to be sure. I'll do some test and tell you if I find something.
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  #10  
09-03-2004, 01:30 PM
Yatti Yatti is offline
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Ive Noticed aswell the darkness levels on my kvcd appear to be just a tinge darker than the source i believe its my scrip though..
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  #11  
09-12-2004, 02:10 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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ColorMatrix,
the magnific solution from Wilbert posted in doom9 forum.

download the file and all details...take a look:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82217

thank you very much Wibert !
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  #12  
09-12-2004, 02:28 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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one quick question jorel...
is that an AviSynth or VDub Filter?
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  #13  
09-12-2004, 03:40 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
one quick question jorel...
is that an AviSynth or VDub Filter?
both Jell but have details !

download the ColorMatrix_v12.zip (updated)in the first post:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82217
and read all details in the .html inside the zip file!
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  #14  
09-18-2004, 12:34 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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@Jorel
Great finding Jorge
Although I know you had already warned us for quite some time this was happening
Anyway I tried ColorMatrix and it's waaaayyyy sloooooowww.
It makes a movie encode in half the speed it usually does.
I know all my encoding will make use of ColorMatrix from now on, but the speed issue is a BIG issue...
Do you think sh0dan can enhance it in terms of speed?
Can you ask him at D9 to include it in the next Avisynth release?
Maybe if he includes it in the small filter bundle he will take care it is properly coded for highest quality and speed.
You know what I mean, right?
Cheers
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  #15  
10-16-2004, 11:32 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi guys,
I am aware that there is a new version of colormatrix rebuild for speed by Manao at D9.
Make a search there and you'll most likely find it.
Cheers
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