I think Peter explained it well. See also here : http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....14621&start=16 , especially Scharfi's post about the patterns observed when the unknown clip has been bob-deinterlaced.
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Edited the first script a little : AssumeBFF() added to ensure a certain field order in the final video.
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@ Boulder
thank you my friend.... i remeber when you was helping me in lots of pms to understand how it works round 1 or 2 years ago . thanks again(past,present and future) ! :D |
@Boulder: Could you explain me how frames are managed in ntsc -> pal both methods.
I mean, you have 29.97 interlaced, in one of the scripts you use assumefps(25), it is no drop frames, but movie time changed, isn't it? The other one uses convertfps(50). What does it mean? 29.97 to 50 fps. If convertfps works without inserting frames, I don't understand how do its work. How we must to manage audio in both scripts? It would be possible convert from 29.97 interlaced to 25 fps droping frames (less frames, same movie time) with a good result? |
Assume FPS() is used IF you just pitch up from 23.976 to 25.000 (as that MVconvert60ito24p() does pre-convert to 23.976 out of 29.97 real interlaced )
Convertfps() is used IF you perform a fieldblended conversion out of real NTSC 29.97 interlaced video to 25.000. The 29.97 will be bobbed to the fieldrate (=twice the framerate) and a convertFPS(50) will fieldblend convert to full PAL fieldrate, finally that resulted 50fps PAL stream will be reinterlaced to its PAL framerate 25.000 |
How about this 2 questions?
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1. The audio sync is kept as assumefps(25,true) (I see that should be added!!) in both scripts do force the 23.976 resulted stream to finally end up in PAL 25.000.
2. In a direct way: NO. As it would bekome noticable jerky. But if you do a fieldblended conversion from 29.97 to 25 in the known bobbed way then it works but the result is still interlaced. http://home.arcor.de/scharfis_brain/...esInterlacing/ Its in german but THE best bible related to interlaced sources/scripting! An online translator could make it understandable for you. |
Hi everyone and thanks to Boulder for starting this post.
I just started to work on my own personal videos (captured with a PAL DV camcorder) hence I'm new to the subject of interlaced video. After hours of reading (through this forum notably), I discovered that this is tricky and most confusing for dumb newbies as myself (I'm trying hard to learn though). I therefore still have questions for the experts here. OK, after editing my video, I end-up with an avi file in PAL format, interlaced BFF, which I want to turn into KVCD to be viewed on PAL TV Here are my questions: 1) Is it right to assume that I do not need to deinterlace the video, since I will not watch it on a computer, but on TV only? 2) Or is there any reasons why I should still deinterlace it? 3) I'm not sure to understand the purpose of Boulder's sript: Quote:
Are there cases where you don't need to go through all this deinterlace-interlace process while encoding to KVCD (if you do not apply any filtering for instance)? 4) Can Kwag optimal MA script be used with Boulder's above script? 5) Sometime ago, in another post Boulder was suggesting the following script for interlaced videos Quote:
a) Bob-deinterlace - apply usual Script - Interlace or b) SeparteFields - apply usual Script separately to even and odd - Interleave(even,odd) - Weave Which is the best of the 2 methods for Kwag's MA script? 6) Lastly a small technical issue. In its initial post, Boulder says Quote:
Sorry :oops: for asking so many (stupid) questions and thanks for your help Surfinette A suggestion if I may, it would be worht having a Sticky post on Interlaced video script with the final (?!) conclusions of the experts |
Ill try to answer you as far as I can: :wink:
1.Yes,its no need to deinterlace for Tv viewing,the encoded video looks better when its interlaced(my opinion!) 4.Im not sure I never use it,I use Boulders. 5.someone else must answer to this 6.Goto "MPEG Setting"-"Advanced"-"Video Source Setting"-"Field Order" and yes it has to be set as it was in the original video,if not you get a shaky picture on your tv. ---------------------- viking EDIT:Read this about interlace/progressive stuff http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9808 it explains a lot |
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Mpeg2Source("Your_D2V_Source_Here") Quote:
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Boulder wrote:
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KernelBob(order=0,sharp=true,threshold=7) AssumeFrameBased() # # AssumeBFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,0,3) Weave() :?: :?: The bob documentation on AviSynth page told me this: Bob takes a clip and bob-deinterlaces it. This means that it enlarges each field into its own frame by interpolating between the lines. The top fields are nudged up a little bit compared with the bottom fields, so the picture will not actually appear to bob up and down. However, it will appear to "shimmer" in stationary scenes because the interpolation doesn't really reconstruct the other field very accurately. Or does bob(),kernelbob() and others the deinterlacing job another way than fielddeinterlace() and smoothdeinterlace() :?: And yes I know that in interlace video the topfield-lines and bottomfield-lines are "brodcasted" at different times,and thats the reason why its hard to get the same quality when we deinterlace? Deinterlaceing is a "compromise" between lines as the lines where broadcasted at different times :?: In other words,its not possible to deinterlace and get the same quality as a film thats progressive originally?? Or am I totally lost(again) :?: :lol: ----------------------- viking |
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Bobbing only affects one field at a time, which means that it separates the fields and enlarges them to full height, that's why you get a doublerate output when using a bob filter. "Regular" deinterlacing either interpolates or blends information from the two different fields, "combining" them and that's why the field information is lost and cannot be restored. Quote:
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So after processing the filters the reinterlacer brings the fields back to their orig height and they will be weaved again. If you just do denoising and/or a simple cropping like 720 to 704, I would just use a simple Bob(0,x) instead of an adaptive working Kerneldeint. If kerneldeint is used, then set it to th=0 and sharp=false. This keeps the fields in a best condition for denoising. But if resizing is used, then kernelbob incl. ath and sharp is the choice. |
Thanks, that were fast answers !
Boulder wrote Quote:
I guess I was not too clear with my 3rd question: Quote:
ie, just this very simple script: LoadPlugin("D:\Video\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg2dec\MPEG2D~ 1.DLL") AVISource("E:\Video\MAGIX\MYAUDI~1\titi.avi",False ) BicubicResize(480,576,0.0,0.6) Because as I move on on how to deal with my video to make a nice KVCD, I’m wondering whether I need any filtering at all since the source is very high quality (DV-AVI) and I don't necessarily need to fit a long video on 1 CD. Probably again a stupid thought, which doesn’t fit in this thread anyway! Surfinette |
I'd do interlaced encodings with DVD target only so SKVCD would also be out of the question. Unless the average bitrate would be around 2000kbps or so. Note that only MPEG-2 supports interlaced encoding.
Processing an interlaced video as it is, is a big no-no. You can crop it but you'll have to be extra careful. You can probably even get away with resizing horizontally, but if you use any overscan (as you should), you must resize vertically as well. That's where you need the bobbing. You should also convert the colorspace in your script instead of blindly trusting any external codec, and the conversion is best done when the material is in progressive state, that is, bobbed and not yet re-interlaced. |
Boulder wrote:
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AviSource() Bob() Info() and got this result: Frames per second: 50 then I added this to the script: AssumeBFF() SeparateFields() SelectEvery(4,1,2) Weave() and got this result: Frames per second:25 I did the same test with kernelbob() and the results were the same. then I did test with Fielddeinterlace(),Smoothdeinterlace() and TomsMoComp(),and get this result: Frames per second:25 So I think I (finally :wink: ) get the point. :!: But a question,when I load the first script in TMPGEnc,it switches(of course) to 50 fps,should I change it to 25 or just encode as it is? (im talking of bob-deinterlacing here) if I encode with 50fps will that do anything "wrong" when playing the clip on DVD-player? And whats the best deinterlacing method,bob/kernelbob or field/smoothdeinterlace? (When we want to keep the video deinterlaced) And finally when I want to encode interlaced(keep the video interlaced) the bobs() is the only useful option as they dont destroy the fields?right? Thanks ------------- viking |
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Boulder wrote:
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1) SKVCD is MPEG-2, isn't it? SKVCD should therefore support intelaced encoding, assuming sufficiently high bitrates? 2) I intend to make short videos (I don't want to bore family and friends :wink: ): 30-40 min on one CD (maybe 50 min max). I assume therefore that I could reach close to 2000kbps bitrate. I guess it is still worthwile to use SKVCD at such bitrates... or should I do plain standard SVCD? |
1) yes and yes
2) the only difference between SVCD and SKVCD is the notch matrix and the GOP length - so you should go for SKVCD anyway since it offers better compression and better quality. Just make sure you use the CQ mode in TMPGEnc, and you should try whether the encode turns out to be good or bad when encoded as interlaced. It depends big time on the source material, if there's lots of motion, it demands a lot more bits too. |
@Surfinette,
if your source is DV,and you don't want any filters, try this script:(its for KSVCD). Quote:
the result in high "action" scenes. --------------------- viking |
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