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-   -   DVRs: Audio settings, WinTV2000 and PVR250 (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/capture/7195-dvrs-audio-settings.html)

nicksteel 12-14-2003 04:25 PM

Audio settings, WinTV2000 and PVR250
 
What are best audio configuration settings? My sound is not all that good on my captures. I am using VirtualDub-MPEG to stream wav file for encode with avisynth into TMPGEnc.

kwag 12-14-2003 05:26 PM

Re: Audio settings, WinTV2000 and PVR250
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksteel
I am using VirtualDub-MPEG to stream wav file for encode with avisynth into TMPGEnc.

Don't do that :!:
Encode your audio with HeadAC3he :!:

-kwag

nicksteel 12-14-2003 05:43 PM

Re: Audio settings, WinTV2000 and PVR250
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksteel
I am using VirtualDub-MPEG to stream wav file for encode with avisynth into TMPGEnc.

Don't do that :!:
Encode your audio with HeadAC3he :!:

-kwag

Sorry, I didn't say that I am using Headac3he for 128 mp2 that I mux with mplex. I am also using a dvd2avi file with trim statements in script.

The sound is in synch, but is not totally clear. Sounds like too much bass. I'm using dual channel, surround 2 in headac3he. The capture is stereo with the capture card.

nicksteel 12-14-2003 05:45 PM

Re: Audio settings, WinTV2000 and PVR250
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksteel
I am using VirtualDub-MPEG to stream wav file for encode with avisynth into TMPGEnc.

Don't do that :!:
Encode your audio with HeadAC3he :!:

-kwag

Sorry, I didn't say that I am using Headac3he for 128 mp2 that I mux with mplex. I am also using a dvd2avi file with trim statements in script.

The sound is in synch, but is not totally clear. Sounds like too much bass.

Should I change booster or strength defaults in headac3he or other settings?

kwag 12-14-2003 06:16 PM

Hi nicksteel,

If the captured audio sounds too bassy, you might want to run your WAV through equalization, maybe with Goldwave or some other audio program. This way you can change the low frequencies, save your WAV, and then encode to .mp2 :idea:

-kwag

nicksteel 12-14-2003 06:58 PM

Thanks, Kwag. I'll try that. I captured and processed with MA and KDVD to DVD at 95 CQ. The picture is literally DVD quality, just the sound isn't quite up to par.

kwag 12-14-2003 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksteel
I captured 2001 and processed with MA and KDVD to DVD at 95 CQ. The picture is literally DVD quality, just the sound isn't quite up to par.

What was your encoded file size, and was it a full screen or wide screen encode :?:

-kwag

nicksteel 12-15-2003 04:14 AM

deleted

incredible 12-15-2003 07:12 AM

Try this ....

Code:

Video=Mpeg2source("yourPVR250Capture.d2v")
Audio=mpasource("YourdemuxedPVR250MP2audiofile.mp2")
Audiodub(video,Audio)
Trim(xxxx,xxxx)

Regulary by doing this you can trim easely your input stream if open this avs in VdubMOD by just trimming and afterwards in Avisynth script mode (in VdubMOD!) view by importing the framesets as Trim Commands to the avs.

Afterwards close VdubMOD and reopen the .avs inculding the imported Trimms. Now Just demux your Audio in "Stream information" by using demux Audio. This audio you can afterwards load into besweet to convert it as new in 128kbit.

As Kwag and the whole world recommend: Never use TmpgEncs internal audio engine!.

And according to your main problem:
Whats the problem with your audio?? ust too much bass or also cutted high frequencies?? How does it sound like?? Interferencies, distortion, noise??

Do you capture direct from an coax cable or do you use a VCR signal to feed your PVR250 with???

nicksteel 12-15-2003 08:29 AM

Quote:

As Kwag and the whole world recommend: Never use TmpgEncs internal audio engine!.

And according to your main problem:
Whats the problem with your audio?? ust too much bass or also cutted high frequencies?? How does it sound like?? Interferencies, distortion, noise??
First, I never use TMPGEnc for audio, only Headac3he. The sound is somewhat distorted, though it doesn't sound like interference or added noise. The capture is MPEG sound, not AC3, due to the PVR250 board.

The best way to descibe the distortion is that the voices are not that clear and some of the music sounds like it is being played on small speakers that cannot handle the range. I know this is not the problem, as my previous captures with a WINTVGO90 card (as AC3 wave files) didn't have this problem. My tv is a Sony with surround sound, etc. Everything else (TV, DVD's, etc) sounds perfect.

My exact process (was same for old capture card) is:

Capture with PVR250 at 12MB sec CBR
Generate d2v file with DVD2AVI
Trim captured MPEG file with VirtualDub-MPEG
Save process settings (for trim statements)
Save wav file as stream copy
Process wav file to mp2 with Headac3he with Surround 2, Dual Channel 192
Generate m2v file with TMPGEnc KDVD template, interlaced.
Load m2v and mp2 files into TMPGEnc Author (I have no AC3 file)
Generate VOB files
Burn as DVD with NERO.

I have the same sound issues when I do the same as above, but encode with TMPGEnc and mux with BBMPEG, MPLEX or TMPGEnc tools and burn as SVCD.

The sound seems ok on my pc, but is somehow degraded with Headac3he. I still feel it is related to the MPEG layer II file from the PVR250 instead of an AC3 file. I'm going to contact the PVR250 forum and see if there is a way of capturing as AC3, as it appears as an option, even though I cannot activate it.

nicksteel 12-16-2003 10:37 AM

Incredible..............
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by incredible
Try this ....

Code:

Video=Mpeg2source("yourPVR250Capture.d2v")
Audio=mpasource("YourdemuxedPVR250MP2audiofile.mp2")
Audiodub(video,Audio)
Trim(xxxx,xxxx)

Regulary by doing this you can trim easely your input stream if open this avs in VdubMOD by just trimming and afterwards in Avisynth script mode (in VdubMOD!) view by importing the framesets as Trim Commands to the avs.

Afterwards close VdubMOD and reopen the .avs inculding the imported Trimms. Now Just demux your Audio in "Stream information" by using demux Audio. This audio you can afterwards load into besweet to convert it as new in 128kbit.

As Kwag and the whole world recommend: Never use TmpgEncs internal audio engine!.

And according to your main problem:
Whats the problem with your audio?? ust too much bass or also cutted high frequencies?? How does it sound like?? Interferencies, distortion, noise??

Do you capture direct from an coax cable or do you use a VCR signal to feed your PVR250 with???

Basic questions:

:?: What does Audiodub() actually do?

:?: Is MPEG1 Layer II the same as MP2?

My present method saves wav file from VirtualDub-MPEG2 that matches trim statements. Is this wav file "lossless"?

What I am obviously trying to do is trim a PVR250 MPEG2 (with MPEG1 Layer II audio) to use with avisynth for a KDVD. I need the best quality possible, of course.

Boulder 12-16-2003 11:53 AM

Hi,

your problem might be as simple as a too low recording volume. Most people want to raise the recording level, but it has to be done via registry.

Find HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Hauppauge\hcwTVDlg\Aud ioControls in the registry and look for Scart1_volume. Use a value from 100-127 and reboot after you've changed it. Someone mentioned that 115 is a good value for him but you'll have to find the sweet spot yourself.

Some people (like myself) have had problems getting stereo sound. I had to do a hybrid driver install, using the latest drivers for video and the last of the 1.6 branch for audio to get it working. That might help too, see here: http://www.shspvr.com/forum/viewtopi...hybrid&start=0

nicksteel 12-16-2003 12:06 PM

Thanks, Boulder
 
I'll first try to increase volume and then, if necessary, change the drivers. I wish the board would capture AC3 like the old ones. Never had a problem with those.

Dano 12-17-2003 06:30 PM

Try encoding as stereo instead of dual channel, it sounds better to me. Dual channel is good for ac3 sources.

Boulder 12-18-2003 04:35 AM

After playing around with some captures done by the board, I noticed that you'll need to have the audio bitrate at 160kbps in the final audio file to get rid of the distortion effect.

I think the biggest problem is that the board already compresses the audio to MP2, even if it is 384kbps, it's still lossy and when you compress the file further to 128kbps, you'll get distortion which is often a sign of too low bitrates.

If I could capture the audio to WAV, I would gladly do that.

nicksteel 12-18-2003 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder
After playing around with some captures done by the board, I noticed that you'll need to have the audio bitrate at 160kbps in the final audio file to get rid of the distortion effect.

I think the biggest problem is that the board already compresses the audio to MP2, even if it is 384kbps, it's still lossy and when you compress the file further to 128kbps, you'll get distortion which is often a sign of too low bitrates.

If I could capture the audio to WAV, I would gladly do that.

I'll try at 160. I had wondered about kbps, as the capture audio was MPEG2 instead of wave or ac3. I do see that my cartoon captures that I encoded compliant vcd with 224kbps sound ok. I can see that compressing the mp2 384 to 128 is too much.

incredible 12-18-2003 07:14 AM

@ Boulder

When I had a PVR 250 here for testing I focussed to the image quality.
By this I didn't pay that attention to the quality of its internal mp2 audio encoding.

So your conclusion would be that a PVR 250 internal mp2 audio encoding got a worse quality in comparison to the known ways and encoders? Did I understand you well?

Boulder 12-18-2003 07:58 AM

Yes, I would say that even the 384kbps, 48KHz MP2 audio doesn't sound good enough for a bitrate that high. I can't do any direct compares, but I'd estimate that it's about as good as 160-192kbps with tooLAME. I wish there were a way to get WAV - or a better MP2 encoder.

I've done some 128kbps VBR MP3->128kbps MP2 encodes and they actually sound better than those captured audio clips re-encoded at 128kbps!

rhino 12-18-2003 08:18 AM

Boulder,

got to www.shspvr.com and ask those guys, especially SHS. There are a number of graph tutorials/docs now so there may be someway of doing this. I'm also beta testing a new PVR app for PVR250/350 for some some guy in NZ so i'll check with him to see if he knows of anyway of doing this,

Cheers,

nicksteel 12-18-2003 08:36 AM

I've tried the forum at www.shspvr.com, but no usable response yet.

Boulder 12-18-2003 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhino
Boulder,

got to www.shspvr.com and ask those guys, especially SHS. There are a number of graph tutorials/docs now so there may be someway of doing this. I'm also beta testing a new PVR app for PVR250/350 for some some guy in NZ so i'll check with him to see if he knows of anyway of doing this,

Cheers,

Hi Rhino,

theoretically it should be possible as you said and GraphEdit really could be the way. I'll see if there's any help in those tutorials.

Thanks!

nicksteel 12-23-2003 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder
Yes, I would say that even the 384kbps, 48KHz MP2 audio doesn't sound good enough for a bitrate that high. I can't do any direct compares, but I'd estimate that it's about as good as 160-192kbps with tooLAME. I wish there were a way to get WAV - or a better MP2 encoder.

I've done some 128kbps VBR MP3->128kbps MP2 encodes and they actually sound better than those captured audio clips re-encoded at 128kbps!

:D Thanks, Boulder.

I've started using 160kbps instead of 128kbps from Headac3he. The sound is much improved, though with corresponding loss of video space. No real choice though, so I'll use 160kbps until some other option becomes available. Really love the PVR-250's video at 704x480 and 480x480 MPEG2!

jamesp 12-23-2003 05:20 PM

heh nicksteel. I got me one of these PVr babies - although i went for the PVR-350. Isn't the software which comes with it dog turd! Currently i'm using wintvcap which works really nicely, but it seems a bit of a waste of money to run this board through a little shareware program. The sound capture is awsome on this - so much better than my soundcard. Also, no more ausio.Video sync problems! I think the video is a little too soft - but very clean. I think you can adjust the Sharpness and the board does its own temporal/spatial smoothing so i may try to turn those off.

The tv out on the PVR-350 is superb quality, but only works with MPeg-2 files - not DVD or avi. Luckilly for me, thats all i want it for. The Tv out quality is on a par with a proper DVD player. No more interlacing problems like i used to get with my GeForce MMX cards tv out.

Has anyone tried Sage yet - i couldn't get Snapstream to work.

Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksteel
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder
Yes, I would say that even the 384kbps, 48KHz MP2 audio doesn't sound good enough for a bitrate that high. I can't do any direct compares, but I'd estimate that it's about as good as 160-192kbps with tooLAME. I wish there were a way to get WAV - or a better MP2 encoder.

I've done some 128kbps VBR MP3->128kbps MP2 encodes and they actually sound better than those captured audio clips re-encoded at 128kbps!

:D Thanks, Boulder.

I've started using 160kbps instead of 128kbps from Headac3he. The sound is much improved, though with corresponding loss of video space. No real choice though, so I'll use 160kbps until some other option becomes available. Really love the PVR-250's video at 704x480 and 480x480 MPEG2!


nicksteel 12-23-2003 05:29 PM

:D Glad you like it, jamesp!

Thought you would.


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