Quantcast Cordless Dial-up Internet? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
08-09-2005, 08:10 AM
black prince black prince is offline
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@anyone,

I just bought a laptop and would like to be moble using internet around
the house. I've read about BlueTooth and cordless internet, but are there
other ways to connect cordless.

-BP
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  #2  
08-09-2005, 08:55 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Wi-fi !

Forget blutooth, it's not for long range connexion (more than 10 meters).
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  #3  
08-09-2005, 09:35 AM
scrappy scrappy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Wi-fi !

Forget blutooth, it's not for long range connexion (more than 10 meters).
Have to agree there, if your on a dial-up 56k type line attached to a main pc, put that into connection sharing and buy a 56g (at least) wireless access point, they are fairly cheap these days, connect that to a network card on the pc or into a network switch/hub if you have a network already. If your on a dial-up ISDN then you can get routers for isdn with wireless built in much like the ones you can get for adsl and cable. Draytek do some very good ones as does Zyxel.

If you want to cut costs further you can get a wireless network card for the pc with the internet connection and run both it and the laptop in ad-hoc mode. This will let them create a network and share the internet but is generally not as stable or have the range of a true access point/router.
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  #4  
08-09-2005, 09:47 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrappy
If you want to cut costs further you can get a wireless network card for the pc with the internet connection and run both it and the laptop in ad-hoc mode.
That is the mode I use and that allow data transfer / cross-mount between the 2 PC, that you can't do with a router.

You did not mention ADSL wi-fi router that are provided by a lot of ISP in France (see you you own ISP black pince) and cost less than 100€ when you want to buy one (ADSL in France is up to 20 MB/s dl / 2 MB up)
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  #5  
08-09-2005, 10:26 AM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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My brother buyed a wireless lan (access point and client point).
I configured his lan ok.
But I can not serve internet to client machine.
He have cablemodem via rj45.
I connected it in server machine, then share connection via wireless.
I think cablemodem can't be connected to access point as they can't negotiate connection to each other.
So, I don't know how to connect it.
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  #6  
08-09-2005, 11:24 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Sorry to but in on BP's thread but I thought it would be better answered in this to keep it together rather than having several threads with the same answer.

I also bought a new laptop of late but I wanted to have 'Internet on the go' I was looking at Vodaphones G3 but that can be expensive.

Are there any cheap alternatives like GPRS modems or maybe linking the laptop to a WAP enabled mobile phone?
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  #7  
08-09-2005, 12:16 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
Are there any cheap alternatives like GPRS modems or maybe linking the laptop to a WAP enabled mobile phone?
It seems that we miss the main info : what is BP's location, and what is his internet speed. 56k copper link do not need offer the same choices than 20 MB/s ADSL2.

For instance, I have a 802g wi-fi (11 MB/s) card in my PC but my internet link is 1Mb/s, so it's okay. If I would have a 20 MB/s internet, I will need a 802h wi-fi card.

GPRS or even WAP (that uses GPRS btw) is too slow to use correctly the net. And I don't even speak about price. Where did you find this crazy idea ?

OT: there is the true story about a guy in NY that was on a public bench in a park near a university. A police officer asked him what he was doing there, and the guy answered that he was browsing on the net using his student access from the university nearby, but he was in the mood to rest in the park, as the weather was warm and sunny.
The guy received a ticket and was charged with "signal theft" because he was not into the building while using the wi-fi spot !
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  #8  
08-09-2005, 12:52 PM
scrappy scrappy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
For instance, I have a 802g wi-fi (11 MB/s) card in my PC but my internet link is 1Mb/s, so it's okay. If I would have a 20 MB/s internet, I will need a 802h wi-fi card.
802.11g is 54mbps not 11mbps, if thats all your getting then it's kicked down the speed either due to distance or signal strength. 802.11b is 11mbps while 802.11h is a fix to 802.11a taking it into the 5ghz band to resolve issues with signal degredation and interfering with exsiting radio equipment, mainly radar. It's not a home use protocol, 11b and 11g etc use a 2.4ghz band.

To be fair the fastest wifi you can afford is the better option regardless of the speed of your internet connection, it will make pc to pc transfers much more bareable. Of course if you have a 20mbs broadband line then getting a wifi network that is slower makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
My brother buyed a wireless lan (access point and client point).
I configured his lan ok.
But I can not serve internet to client machine.
He have cablemodem via rj45.
I connected it in server machine, then share connection via wireless.
I think cablemodem can't be connected to access point as they can't negotiate connection to each other.
Thats correct you can't just attach a stock access point to a modem, an access point is essentially a network bridge between a wireless lan segment and a wired segment. You would need a router to sit between the access point and the modem itself, home routers with wifi built in basically do this in one box, the access point is connected internally in this case rather than a wired connection as in a stand alone access point.

Grab a broadband router without wifi, the modem will plug into this via a wan port. It will have further RJ45 ports for network connections, plug the access point into one of these and it will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
Are there any cheap alternatives like GPRS modems or maybe linking the laptop to a WAP enabled mobile phone?
If your mobile phone provider has an internet access option (usually its an added option at extra monthly cost + usage rates which are expensive) you can use most newer mobile phones with the laptop using either a wired cable that plugs into the bottom, the irda port or bluetooth. We use sony erricson 700i mobiles at work and get internet access via bluetooth, you'll need the sony access kit and software which is around £40.

Tbh your better off dropping in on a starbucks or a mcdonalds etc and using their wifi internet access hotspots (just have to buy a coffee or something and ask for the details).
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  #9  
08-09-2005, 01:13 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
GPRS or even WAP (that uses GPRS btw) is too slow to use correctly the net. And I don't even speak about price. Where did you find this crazy idea ?
I got this crazy idea while doing some research off the net and the website of the provider of my mobile phone service.

They offered 3 options, G3 which is like broadband for mobile phones, GPRS and Wireless-LAN, all these cards are PCMCIA and have a small antenna to receive the net.

The G3 and Wireless-LAN seemed to me to be the best options as G3 is fast but I think expensive and the Wireless LAN seemed a good fast option also as there are hot-spots in this country where you can use your WiFi LAN in places like McDonald's and BT Openspace and several over companies that provide them, there is a whole list of places on their site that supports this option.

@scrappy

I'd like to thank you for a more sensible answer and for your advice, I was looking into all the options you suggested but I needed to know which method would be best to connect online on the move and I was leaning towards a wireless LAN card and going to a hotspot as there are loads of them here in the U.K.

So thanks for the push in the right direction.
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  #10  
08-09-2005, 01:59 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrappy
802.11g is 54mbps not 11mbps [...] 802.11h is a fix to 802.11a taking it into the 5ghz band
Lol. You're right. I was too muck in my work when I wrote that (I work in Nortel, in the cordless division. I surely see to much "h" recently ).

Quote:
To be fair the fastest wifi you can afford is the better option regardless of the speed of your internet connection, it will make pc to pc transfers much more bareable
I use an ethernet link when I need to transfer between PC.
11 MB/s is enought to read smoothly a Divx on the main PC while the laptop is link to the TV set and the Home-Theater system

@Zyphon
For sure G3 is not the same story as GPRS. Edge can be a good option also (I think Vodafone uses Edges even in UK - not sure).

That's funny to see we are the cheapier country in Europe (and may be world) for fast speed ADSL access (25/30€/month for a 8 or even 20 MB/s) but there is almost no free wi-fi spot here. We're always suspicious whith the "free" word.
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  #11  
08-09-2005, 02:04 PM
scrappy scrappy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
I'd like to thank you for a more sensible answer and for your advice, I was looking into all the options you suggested but I needed to know which method would be best to connect online on the move and I was leaning towards a wireless LAN card and going to a hotspot as there are loads of them here in the U.K.

So thanks for the push in the right direction.
No problem.. we only use the access when we need email in the middle of nowhere, having said that you never seem to be more than 10 minutes away from a mcdonalds these days regardless of where you are :P most motorway services have wifi access too these days, it's becoming a lot easier to use the internet while out and about than it used to be.
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  #12  
08-09-2005, 02:34 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrappy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
My brother buyed a wireless lan (access point and client point).
I configured his lan ok.
But I can not serve internet to client machine.
He have cablemodem via rj45.
I connected it in server machine, then share connection via wireless.
I think cablemodem can't be connected to access point as they can't negotiate connection to each other.
Thats correct you can't just attach a stock access point to a modem, an access point is essentially a network bridge between a wireless lan segment and a wired segment. You would need a router to sit between the access point and the modem itself, home routers with wifi built in basically do this in one box, the access point is connected internally in this case rather than a wired connection as in a stand alone access point.

Grab a broadband router without wifi, the modem will plug into this via a wan port. It will have further RJ45 ports for network connections, plug the access point into one of these and it will work.
I don't know if it will work in that way. Let me ask some more questions.

The easiest config, like manual say, is:

(cablemodem - router - access point) (wired) and from here wireless connections. This is also that you have said.

My question is, can the router negotiate an IP adresses with the ISP, then setting it in multipoint mode, via NAT or another protocol, to give internet access to 2 or more clients machines via wireless?
In this case none of the machines will have ICS activated, isn't it?
My question about it is: ISP only assign 1 IP address. If the router is setted in multipoint, it will act as a modem, then the external IP address will be assignated to the first connected PC and second one can't access to internet.
I don't understand nothing.
How the router must to be configurated?

My brother's actual connection is

(cablemodem - PC ) (wired) and from here wireless to access point > client PC.
ICS activated in first PC.
Access point configured in a special way that permits this connection.
LAN works ok, but internet disabled in client PC. Why?

Thanks in advance.

add: I see in a few post that you know a lot about computing, and I didn't mistake.
Thanks for your patience.
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  #13  
08-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
@Zyphon
For sure G3 is not the same story as GPRS. Edge can be a good option also (I think Vodafone uses Edges even in UK - not sure).

That's funny to see we are the cheapier country in Europe (and may be world) for fast speed ADSL access (25/30€/month for a 8 or even 20 MB/s) but there is almost no free wi-fi spot here. We're always suspicious whith the "free" word.
Thanks for the info Phil, my mobile phone supplier is Vodafone and I was browsing their site for the various options available for net access on the move.

I shall check out that Edge option you mentioned and do some research on it.

That is a bloody good price you have over there for ADSL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrappy
No problem.. we only use the access when we need email in the middle of nowhere, having said that you never seem to be more than 10 minutes away from a mcdonalds these days regardless of where you are :P most motorway services have wifi access too these days, it's becoming a lot easier to use the internet while out and about than it used to be.
Lol, very true. I live in London and you can't go far without coming across a McDonald's, I guess they do have their uses.

It is good to know most motorway services have WiFi services.

I only need the net access really on the move to access my mail mail when I am in the middle of nowhere also.
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  #14  
08-09-2005, 04:20 PM
scrappy scrappy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
My question is, can the router negotiate an IP adresses with the ISP, then setting it in multipoint mode, via NAT or another protocol, to give internet access to 2 or more clients machines via wireless?
Ok.. the cable modem should be able to connect itself to the isp (least the ones in the uk do), it then put itself into bridge mode and pass the same ip it aquired from the isp to the pc connected to it, this enables the internet access for the pc and makes it appear as if the cable modem is invisible. If this is the case then connecting the cable modem to a router is essentially the same, the cable modem will pass the ip to the router instead, the router then sets up a lan with a private ip range (usually 192.168.*.* or 10.*.*.*), then via a built in dhcp server it gives any pc that connects to it an ip address. Thus any pc that is physically wired to the router via cat5 cable will work. If you connect an access point to this router it also will get a ip address (it needs one), but as i mentioned before, it's a bridge thus is effectively invisible. It will pass on any dhcp requests from pc's connecting wirelessly to the router which will then give them an ip address just as if they where physically wired to the network. Most access points can accomodate upto 128 client pc's, some newer ones can handle more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
In this case none of the machines will have ICS activated, isn't it?
That correct none of the pc's will require ICS activating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
My question about it is: ISP only assign 1 IP address. If the router is setted in multipoint, it will act as a modem, then the external IP address will be assignated to the first connected PC and second one can't access to internet.
This is where NAT (Network Address Translation) comes in. You are correct that the IP address from the isp is assigned to the first connected pc to the modem, however in this case that will be the router, so only the router can see the internet, it becomes a gateway. However after the lan is setup and the pc's on it get their ip address from the router it can do NAT for them. This process gets complicated to explain but basically...

A request for a web site from your pc goes to the router, the router takes that request and re-writes the packet headers in it to make it look like it originated from the router itself. This re-written packet is then sent onto the internet and a reply is received, this reply also has a header and the router can match this reply to the orignal request, so it once again re-writes the header putting the original pc's details in and sends it to the pc that asked for it. Thus even though your pc does not have a valid ip address for the internet, and is not connected to the modem it still appears as if it is from a usage point of view.

Think of the internet as the road outside your house, the router as your front door, and your pc as your house. To get to the road you have to go through your door, and to get back in your house you have to go through your door. That is essentially what any packets from your pc to the internet and replys coming back do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
I don't understand nothing.
How the router must to be configurated?

My brother's actual connection is

(cablemodem - PC ) (wired) and from here wireless to access point > client PC.
ICS activated in first PC.
Access point configured in a special way that permits this connection.
LAN works ok, but internet disabled in client PC. Why?
Getting networks to play ball can be complicated sometimes

In an ideal situation will need a router, can't escape that fact.

Cable Modem -> Router -> Access Point -> Wireless PC's
Cable Modem -> Router -> Wired PC's

Most routers have 5 rj45 ports for local network connections (basically a built in network switch) to these you can plug in a pc directly or add other networking devices (daisy chain hubs or switches for more wired connections etc) in your case plug your access point into one.

The router will have a web driven interface to it, so you just have to point a web browser at its default address (say 192.168.1.1) to configure it's settings, almost all of them will have a wizard to set it up though making it very easy. I have a Zyxel 660h ADSL router and I can testify to the quality of this particular brand, easy to setup and very good.

With regards to your current setup. To get that to work, you will need two network cards in the first pc. Connect one to the cable modem so that it can see the internet ok. Connect the other to the access point, you will need to set the ip address on the first pc for the network card connected to the access point to a static ip (use 192.168.1.1) and enabled ICS, you will then need to set a static ip address on the access point (use 192.168.1.2) and finally you will need to set a static ip address on the 2nd pc (use 192.168.1.3). On both the access point and the 2nd pc you will have to set the gateway to 192.168.1.1 (the ip you gave the first pc) and set the DNS server entries manually to those of your isp. This should give you a working setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Thanks in advance.
No problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
add: I see in a few post that you know a lot about computing, and I didn't mistake.
Thanks for your patience.
Been doing hardware and software related things for a couple of decades, I'm a software engineer by uni degrees and a network and systems engineer by work, until i became i.t. manager :P (just a way of getting more work outta me tbh), anyway glad I could help.
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  #15  
08-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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@scrappy: I'll give it a try. Thanks a lot.
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  #16  
08-10-2005, 08:12 AM
black prince black prince is offline
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@Hi All,

I just want to be mobile in my home with my laptop. I am investigating
other internet options based on the responses of this post (i.e. ADSL).
So far only Verizon, Cavalier, ACN offer DSL with phone service. I want
a service with no phone required or naked DSL. Then I can use VOIP as
my long distance and local phone (i.e. Vonage). For 911 and emergencies
I'll use a cell phone when needed. If there are any ideas let me know.
I live in USA Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.

Thanks

-BP
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  #17  
08-10-2005, 08:24 AM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black prince
@Hi All,

I just want to be mobile in my home with my laptop. I am investigating
other internet options based on the responses of this post (i.e. ADSL).
So far only Verizon, Cavalier, ACN offer DSL with phone service. I want
a service with no phone required or naked DSL. Then I can use VOIP as
my long distance and local phone (i.e. Vonage). For 911 and emergencies
I'll use a cell phone when needed. If there are any ideas let me know.
I live in USA Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.

Thanks

-BP
It seems verizon becomes naked.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/62633
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  #18  
08-10-2005, 02:05 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black prince
Then I can use VOIP as
my long distance and local phone (i.e. Vonage).
I'm also fishing for the best VoIP service.
Then I can use my cellular to receive calls, and use an unlimited VoIP service for my outgoing calls
Right now, I can't use Vonage, because their service requires a credit card with a phisical address in the US
I tried to use my MasterCard, and it's funny that I can't use it, because my address is in Puerto Rico.
I called Vonage, and they said their system works in Puerto Rico, but I can't use it with any credit card DAMN
Anyway, last week I bought a LinkSys PAP2 VoIP adapter, and I had to return it to CompUSA just because of that reason.
Last night I ordered this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Grandstream-Hand...QQcmdZViewItem
That unit is user configureable, so I can choose any provider I want

-kwag
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  #19  
08-10-2005, 02:07 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
It seems verizon becomes naked.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/62633
Too late for Verizon
I already switched to Cable.
If they had done that a year ago, I might have stayed with them

-kwag
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  #20  
08-10-2005, 03:07 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
It seems verizon becomes naked.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/62633
Too late for Verizon
I already switched to Cable.
If they had done that a year ago, I might have stayed with them
-kwag
Does it really worth to have only voip instead usual phone line?
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