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  #21  
07-25-2004, 11:24 AM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
To clarify the actual situation : are you using KVCD matrix or not ?
Nope. As you say, OPV mode is somewhat inflexible because the prediction pass is done before one is able to change parameters. Another reason we need an external tool to do it .

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Edit: OH MY GOD ! That works (or seems to for the moment...) : DVD-RB had a Qbased mode using file size prediction.
Yep. Cool, huh?

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Why the hell this isn't the default mode ?
I think because it's still not always very accurate. But we can fix that.

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I'll tell you about the results (but the Q factor foudn for this movie is 7 : I don't see how the result can be bad )
It won't be bad. 7 is very low. It should be excellent quality .
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  #22  
07-25-2004, 02:43 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
It won't be bad. 7 is very low. It should be excellent quality .
Hum.... it is not. REALLY not. Dancing block on all the walls and otehr flat areas.
I think I definetly can't suffer anymore the default mpeg matrix !

I do a last try with a patched CCE with KVCd matrix and if it does not work, DVD-RB will return to the trash bin.

EDIT: I forgot that there is no way to patch a matrix in 2.67 as it handles custum matrixes. So DVD-RB always switch back to "standard" matrix and that gives crap

EDIT2: Ok, matrix patched manually into the exe. I restart the process. Once again...
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  #23  
07-25-2004, 08:39 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Hum.... it is not. REALLY not. Dancing block on all the walls and otehr flat areas.
That's very strange. What does your Avisynth script look like?

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EDIT2: Ok, matrix patched manually into the exe. I restart the process. Once again...
I think read somewhre that to make it use a custom matrix you have to delete the standard one. Or maybe not...
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  #24  
07-25-2004, 08:55 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
That's very strange. What does your Avisynth script look like?
Very basical :
Code:
mpeg2source("...",idct=7)
Undot()
Deen()
Letterbox(16,16,16,16)
Basical but that is the script I use for all my KDVD and that gives perfect results.

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I think read somewhre that to make it use a custom matrix you have to delete the standard one. Or maybe not...
You can't. There are 4 (why/which ? I do'nt know) matrix hard coded in the exe. I changed them all. The others available matrix are templates saved in the registry database. They includes the standard matrix but if you erased it AND not put any matrix in the ecl, then the hard coded standard one is used.
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  #25  
07-26-2004, 03:23 AM
zagor zagor is offline
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with dvd-rb i'ts possible "rebuild" two dvd (with menu+1audio+1subtitle) on 1 dvd.

byby
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  #26  
07-26-2004, 05:09 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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As I know all CCE matrices are stored in the registry like when we do choose Notch whn doing our KDVDs using CCE.

Now could it be that if DVD-RB uses standard CCE Matrixes, that the FIRST matrix known as standard will be used out of the registry?? If yes, you can try to change the standard Matrix Values to Notch ones.
Just a thougt.
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  #27  
07-26-2004, 07:32 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
As I know all CCE matrices are stored in the registry like when we do choose Notch whn doing our KDVDs using CCE.
Inc, as I said : I patched the exe. I can swear to you that there are hard coded matrix in the exe. Open ccspt.exe with an exe editor and search for "08 10 13" (begining of standard matrix). You will find four of them.

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Now could it be that if DVD-RB uses standard CCE Matrixes, that the FIRST matrix known as standard will be used out of the registry??
I'm not sure you read my last post before to write that but I answer to all of that in it. And the answer is NO.

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If yes, you can try to change the standard Matrix Values to Notch ones. Just a thougt.
I try to use DVD-RB with Notch Matrix since 10 days, you can imagine that this was the first trick I tried )
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  #28  
07-26-2004, 09:27 AM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Basical but that is the script I use for all my KDVD and that gives perfect results.
I've never seen dancing blocks on any CCE encode I've done. Perhaps Undot and Deen are removing too much noise?

But if you're not happy with the CCE encodes you're doing, then that's not a problem with DVD-RB, it's a problem with CCE. DVD-RB, obviously, doesn't do the encoding itself.

I've not been around long enough to know if you usually use CCE or TMPGEnc, but whatever encoder you use, it should be possible to precisely duplicate your usual encode settings if we develop an external tool to do the encode phase.

Don't blame DVD-RB for flaws you notice in the output. Instead think how great it would be if we had an external tool to do the encode phase in line with the usual KDVD techniques and settings, combined with DVD-RB's ability (unique amongst freeware) to remux that new video back into the original VOBs so that we can effortlessly retain menus and subs in our backups...

That being so, it would be very helpful if you could summarise the "canonical" approach to making a KDVD so that I can begin designing this tool and, if necessary, research ways of automating TMPGEnc, etc.
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  #29  
07-26-2004, 09:44 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
Perhaps Undot and Deen are removing too much noise?
I never had that with my manual KDVD that I do also with CCE ! The only diff ? The matrix !
The encode (with KVCD-Notch matrix patched) was finished yesterday but I encoded on my laptop and I want to transfer it on my main PC because the laptop screen is not the best. I'll tell you tonight.

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DVD-RB, obviously, doesn't do the encoding itself.
I should have mentionned that I already did 50 KDVD with CCE
Even if the first ones had some problems we named "movie paint" aspect due to the script that removed too much.

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it should be possible to precisely duplicate your usual encode settings if we develop an external tool to do the encode phase.
Basivally I encode using the CCE 2.67 template VMesquita developped for his guide , here :
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5142
And the script I already gave to you.

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Don't blame DVD-RB for flaws you notice in the output.
As long as DVD-RB does not allows to use KVCD-Notch matrix in OPV mode, can I ?
Note: did you notice that RB-OPT is delivered with a bunch of matrixes but NOT the KVCD one ? Doom9... tsss...
(even if CCE is delivered with old (obsoletes) KVCD matrixes!)

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That being so, it would be very helpful if you could summarise the "canonical" approach to making a KDVD so that I can begin designing this tool and, if necessary, research ways of automating TMPGEnc, etc.
By canonical you mean "by hand" ?

This is my method :
- DVDShrink (no compression mode) to isolate the movie and cut the credits in the same operation
- DVD2AVI + CCE for the video
- AC3Delay or AC3Machine for adding the delay or reencode the audio
- subrip for turning subtitles in SRT then srt2sup to use them into IFOEdit
- Ifoedit to do a 2 audio + 1 subtitle VOB(s) (+ chapters if I need them here)
supremap to set correct colors in subtitles

- DVDShrink (no compression) again to merge these vob in one single file
- DVDLab Pro to compile the DVD and menu if I need only a 2 movie disc or I want to set different chapters than original ones.


Actually blue part is the one that takes me the more time (encoding time excluded of course). It's boring but you can avoid it if you do only 1 audio movies OR use an other authoring programm taht DVDLab Pro.
Red part can also be avoided if you don't want to make menus (IFOedit produces things ready to burn)
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  #30  
07-26-2004, 01:31 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
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@Dialhot
A bit OT here, but:
Why don't you use spumux to mux the subs and dvdauthor to author without menu? Both are free and take nearly no time (except for processing itself). You can import the VOBs in DVD-Lab later.
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  #31  
07-26-2004, 05:08 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Why don't you use spumux to mux the subs and dvdauthor to author without menu? Both are free and take nearly no time (except for processing itself).
1/ spumux : I read quickly the manual but it seems that to use a graphical type of sub (easy to obtain from the vobs with subrip) you need to generate a xml file to use with spumux. I'm i wrong ? I never took the time to do a perl script to generate such xml.

More: spumux must be used ON THE VOBS already generated, don't they ? How can you be sure that all is in synch ?I have sometimes 5 second of delay in my subtitles. With a srt file I can adjust them before to convert them.

And even with srt file, the gain won't be big as this is the OCR step of subrip that is boring and time consuming.

2/dvdauthor : Again I read quickly the manual and never see if it was abble to do 23 movie DVD with 2 audio track + subtitle. Is that possible ?
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  #32  
07-26-2004, 05:17 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Just to tell : I compared the two encoding I did of the same movie on the same PC and screen (so all filters and hardware were the same) : the KVCD Notch is CLEARLY better ! All is smooth and pleasant as it always be. MPEG standard matrix really sucks

And an other cool thing :
Standard matrix : Q factor found by DVD-RB for movie : 7, for extras : 32
KVCD-Notch : Q =6 and 29.
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  #33  
07-26-2004, 05:21 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Okay. So let's get started on this tool.

The basic process would be, I think:

1) Run DVD-RB "prepare" phase
2) Run our tool, which does file size prediction and then updates the rebuilder.ecl file
3) Run DVD-RB "encode" phase
4) Run DVD-RB "rebuild" phase

Shouldn't be too difficult.
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  #34  
07-26-2004, 05:38 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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No it isn't and it was my idea. One of this idea I never have the time to develop and test . That's the problem when sleeping 4 hours per night : there are 4 lost hours

Note: a was a little too much enthousiastic abotu result with KVCD. Always blocks in the very dark areas (but lot less). I wonder if they aren't on the source ? Hum... No time to check, I have ot burn this disc and go for the next one :-d
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  #35  
07-26-2004, 05:39 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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OK quit talking about it and get to work ,just kidding.

sounds like a great tool and i can't wait

ARe we going to be able to use the notch matrix.
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  #36  
07-26-2004, 05:44 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggt
ARe we going to be able to use the notch matrix.
Are we on KVCD.net or not ?
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  #37  
07-26-2004, 06:08 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
1/ spumux : I read quickly the manual but it seems that to use a graphical type of sub (easy to obtain from the vobs with subrip) you need to generate a xml file to use with spumux. I'm i wrong ? I never took the time to do a perl script to generate such xml.
In older versions, you could use graphical .sub/bmp files, the same input that winsubmux takes. And you can convert from vobsub format using vsconv. But I am not sure it's still possible (I hope it is, otherwise the implementation in DIKO will be harder)
Quote:
More: spumux must be used ON THE VOBS already generated, don't they ? How can you be sure that all is in synch ?I have sometimes 5 second of delay in my subtitles. With a srt file I can adjust them before to convert them.
You must mux the audio and video using MPLEX, and then mux subs with spumux. I am not sure about how to adjust, maybe subtitle workshop can help?
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And even with srt file, the gain won't be big as this is the OCR step of subrip that is boring and time consuming.
Yes, I know, that's why I am suggesting all this.
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2/dvdauthor : Again I read quickly the manual and never see if it was abble to do 23 movie DVD with 2 audio track + subtitle. Is that possible ?
DVDAuthor can do nearly everything the DVD specs allow, so you can expect to be able to do 99 VTS, 32 subtitles and 8 audio tracks. I am just not sure about seamless branching and multiangle, but the rest, get your XML ready and you're all set.
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  #38  
07-26-2004, 06:08 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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yes we are but it doesn't seem like its that easy to do
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  #39  
07-26-2004, 07:26 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmesquita
Yes, I know, that's why I am suggesting all this.
The problem is that you are also saying that what you are suggesting does not work anymore

So can you clear this up ? What usage can I have of spumux starting from a VOB source ?

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get your XML ready and you're all set.
In fact I was talking about the GUI : I knwo that the exe can do all that, but as you say, you need the XML. And that is the GUI that helps in this task that not seems to be manipulate all the stuff I need.

Is there someone that use it and can answer to me ?
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  #40  
07-26-2004, 07:37 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
The problem is that you are also saying that what you are suggesting does not work anymore
Actually I am saying that I don't know if it still works. It worked before XML support was added. I never tried this again after XML support was added (I used this to mux subs rendered in MastroSBT in SVCD mode, so after they added XML it became much simpler to use SRT straight)

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So can you clear this up ? What usage can I have of spumux starting from a VOB source ?
Unfortunatelly, I haven't used for a long while... But I'll be doing some tests this week because I want to get this working in DIKO, so I'll get back to you after that.
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In fact I was talking about the GUI : I knwo that the exe can do all that, but as you say, you need the XML. And that is the GUI that helps in this task that not seems to be manipulate all the stuff I need.
Somebody posted a GUI in DVD Authoring forum, I think. But I have not tried.
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