Quantcast KVCD: Template Mods for DV Captured AVI Files? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
09-19-2002, 08:33 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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First post so let me say kudo's for the work you, and other experienced members here have done. I've been doing lots of searches and FAQ reading - but can't find a clear answer to these questions. Started life in the vcdhelp forums (sorry to see the hostility there some have shown you - especially those where it is apparent they haven't even tried your templates as designed!), but not getting answers there either that are clear to me yet considering I'm only a couple of weeks into video capture/encoding

I have a 1394 card and use Ulead VideoStudio to capture my 1 hour and almost 3 minutes miniDV home videos. I'm currently using the capture template for DV NTSC 29.9 fps at 704x480. This leaves a 13 gig .avi file. Been successful at burning (with Nero) standard VCD's, and now CBR XVCD's, but looking for better quality. Most of your templates appear to be designed for encoding FILM based sources, and playing back in widescreen format. I too have an HDTV widescreen set (Toshiba 56H80), but my goal is to produce better than VHS quality VCD's that can play on my, and my relative's 4:3 SDTV's and fit 63 minutes on 1 800M CDR.

I can't find clear answers to:

1- What capture format is best given the above end objectives?
2- Related to 2 above, will I need/should I use a different capture application?
3- What kvcd template would you recommend I start with? Should I load the KVCDx3 NTSC and change the settings to 29.9 video. Do I need a different framing size like 352x480, or will 528x480 still give best results with NTSC 4:3 sets? Drop the CQ setting 2 or 4 points to gain enough space to fit on a 800M disc? Etc....... Not everyone wants to do ripped DVD's to VCD all the time
4- There are other tools like avisynth and FitCD, etc. Not sure if I need them yet for home video burning - but someone can enlighten me.

Answers to these will get me moving further down the right path so that I can experiment/learn more without wasting too many hours of capture/encode/burn only to see unacceptable results. Much appreciation in advance.

Cheers,
dagger
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  #2  
09-19-2002, 08:56 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi dagger,

You can start with the KVCDx3, because it's the closest in resolution to your actual MiniDV recording. Yes, you have to change the frame rate in the x3 template to 29.97, because that's the frame rate your camera films.
You will also need to deinterlace your video, if you plan to encode as MPEG-1 with the x3 and burn as VCD. That's because (X)VCD's don't support interlaced encoding. If your player supports SVCD, then you can use the x3 encoded as interlaced instead of 3:2 pulldown as it's set in the x3 MPEG-2 template. Then burn as SVCD. If you're going for the MPEG-1, read the manual on AviSynth, as the best way to deinterlace, is with an AviSynth script. You can also use TMPEG's built-in deinterlacing functions, but it will be slower.

-kwag
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  #3  
09-19-2002, 10:20 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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kwag - thanx for the speedy reply. I must have missed this when reading the TMPGEnc overviews - on all the successful VCD's so far, I have never explicitely selected deinterlacing. It sounds like TMPGEnc automatically does that due to sensing source type and destination type? When I bring up the TMPGEnc wizard and select the source, it automatically fills in the Video Type in the Source window to Interlace (which seems to work with my VCD's and XVCD's)?? If true, then I've also read a number of other posts that say TMPGEnc's deinterlacing is not so good, and they use avisynth or other app.

Just for yuks, I ran a pass with a modified KVCDx3NTSC template selecting a CQ of 21 instead of default 25, and 29.97fps instead of 23.96. I also noticed you use a Motion search precision setting of Motion Estimate Search (fast) versus High Quality (slow). On standard and XVCD's, setting to High Quality made a noticable improvement - is your Motion Estimate Search preferred with the other KVCDx3 settings? However, this creates an MPEG1 file of about 1,000Meg, which won't fit on a single CDR. What do I do for this without trashing the quality?

Thanx again,
dagger
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  #4  
09-19-2002, 10:33 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi dagger,

Here's the problem.
KVCDx3 will give you approx. 60 minutes on a 80 minute CD-R only if your source is "Wide Screen" and encoded at 23.976. If those two conditions are met, everything is fine.
If your source is "Full Screen", now you'll fit only ~( play time * .75 )
If your source is "Full Screen" and you're encoding at 29.97, you'll fit ~( play time * 55 ). Just being full screen drops your capacity ~25% and encoding at 29.97 drops another ~20% of space.
So your 60 minutes is really around 33 minutes with this type of source for the x3.

-kwag
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  #5  
09-20-2002, 01:20 PM
Lula1 Lula1 is offline
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Hi Kwag,

For the Hybrid CD thing we talked about I will settle with your suggestion to use standard VCD templates due to compatibility issues.

But now I have another friend ( and this time I will only focus on 2 DVD player models he owns ) who asked for a good looking VCD of his videos. They are shot on DV. So I think I am on the same case of the user that started this topic.

I understood I would have to use KVCDx3-MPEG-1-NTSCFilm.mcf template and change the frame rate to 29,97 fps. Also, I checked Deinterlace option (using option DOUBLE field, is that OK ? ) on TMPGEnc .

Another question of TMPGEnc : on Video Arrange Method, what setting should be used ? Center (keep aspect ratio) or Full Screen (Keep Aspect Ratio ) or custom size ?

Anyway I just tried to do a small test , choosing a 30 second part of the video ( on Source Range option ) .
After 1 minute, TMPGEnc reported an Error : Not enogh Memory .

I have an AMD-Athlon XP 2 GHz and 256 Mb DDR memory .

Don't understand the problem.
Cany you please help.
As always, thank's a lot.
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  #6  
09-20-2002, 01:25 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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kwag - your calculations are about right. I ran another TMGPEnc encoding last night using the previous mods (Full Screen, 29.97fps, de-select inverse telecine), but dropped the bitrate to 2000 max. I still wound up with a 900M mpeg - it wouldn't fit. The wizard screens show the max size based on my settings. When I change the CQ value (KVCDx3 default is 25), downward, it doesn't change. Only changing bitrate seems to change it. I also noticed that to get original 4:3 aspect for the encoded file, I need to change the setting from Full Screen (keep original aspect) to just Full Screen - I would have thought the opposite. Anyway - should I drop the CQ to 20, or do I need to further reduce the max bitrate?

Anyway - how do I get you to use your creative genius to give me, and others, who would like the optimal template for doing NTSC video based DV capture/encoding/burning to a KXVCD???????????????????

Cheers,
dagger
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  #7  
09-22-2002, 10:41 AM
wpeter01 wpeter01 is offline
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@Dagger

I am using Video Studio 6.0 for capturing my DV material from my Camcorder to the PC. I had exactly the same problem as you when I started to create my first Video CD's. In the moment I have two favourites:
Using the KVCD plus template with 352 x 576, yeah I am using PAL, and the other possibility is the standard KVCD template. Here are the modifications I did in order to get 60 min of DV material on one 800 MBdisk:

KVCD plus: Change the VBR value from 22 to 15. THe quality is getting a bit worse but still OK. I changed also the min Bitrate from 300 to 600KB/s because I had some problems using the Stroboskop effect with my camcorder.

KVCD: Change the VBR value to 45. Incraese the Min Bitrate to 600KB/s and the Max Bitrate to 2,3MB/s. Even the resolution is just 352 x 288, the result is much better than the normal VCD ad you will get your 60 min to 1 Disc. This was at least my goal.

I hope this helps you.

regards

Werner
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  #8  
09-22-2002, 08:53 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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FAILURE

I've made about a dozen coasters the past 3 to 4 days (and my wife hates me 'cause each one ties up the PC for a couple of hours), and finally got to the end of mods I thought would work using the KVCDx2Plus and KVCDx3 templates. Just couldn't get the file small enough when using 29.97 frame rate and 4:3 NTSC aspect ratio with the x3 template. kwag pointed that out to me how one looses almost 50% capacity using these formats (versus 23.9 fr and widescreen aspect ratio).

So, on to the KVCDx2Plus 352x240 templates. Tried many different settings, and the last one that only left a few 100K bits left on the CDR was with the Auto-VBR settings at 2500 max, 500 min and CQ = 44 (and of course 29.97 fr and 4:3 aspect). And the result was........ worse than a basic XVCD using CBR at 1450! Lots of pixellizations and poor color renditioning.

Werner - thanks for the tips. I may play with the standard KVCD template. Which one do you prefer - your modded standard or the plus?

Guess I'll keep plugging along until one of you geniuses comes up with the optimal template for this application (ya, I know, all the fun seems to be in how many DVD's can I cram onto a single CDR these days - but I hope video archiving gains interest again in the future).

Cheers,
Dagger
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  #9  
09-24-2002, 02:35 AM
wpeter01 wpeter01 is offline
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Hi Dagger,

actually I prefer the standard KVCD template with 352 x 288 (PAL) for my approach. I seemed to me a bit better quality than the KVCD plus template.

Regards

Werner
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  #10  
09-24-2002, 05:23 AM
wpeter01 wpeter01 is offline
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Hi Dagger,

I checked my previous answer and in fact I told you sth wrong. I was using the KVCD plus template with 352X288 and not the standard template. Sorry for the confusion.

Werner
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  #11  
09-25-2002, 03:49 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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I tried another modded KVCDplus template at 704x480. I changed it to 29.97fps and used a CBR setting to make sure I could fit it on a single CDR (first time I dropped the CQ down to around 40 and it still didn't fit).

Results were terrible - even though the framing was the same as the .avi captured parameters, it had very bad blocking. My guess is that at this frame rate the bit rate wasn't sufficient ( still above the 1150 VCD standard).

So, I'm still getting best results with a 352x240 CBR of 1500 creating an XVCD. Still looking for someone to improve on this!?

Cheers,
dagger
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  #12  
09-27-2002, 07:24 AM
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Hi Dagger

I've been playing with the same problem myself. I finally got Avisynth working (an old version hanging around) so that let me do some filtering outside of Tmpg. I know it's not perfect but it will give you a base system to fool around with. I capture my miniDV video in several applications including Vdub... doesn't seem to make a difference to the final result. My DVD player only seems to work with VCD's so I more or less have the same setup/problems as you.

I started off with KVCD+ and played around from there over a period of a few days (I'm on an extended holiday in China). I get around 85MB for a 8:37 minute clip that includes a lot of typical home movie stuff ie too much panning and zooming and about a third taken at night so it is a fairly good test. The only caveat is my camera stores it's stills as 6 second recordings so they are included in this test... maybe 3-5% of the tape.

The results look terrific on a tv and WMP but there are signs of blocking (especially in the stills) with powerDVD. This is where you may help me improve on the template.

My Avisynth file:
LoadPlugin("C:\WINNT\system32\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("convolution3d.dll")
LoadPlugin("decomb.dll")
AviSource("D:\capture\My AVI file.avi")
FieldDeinterlace(full=true,chroma=true)
#convolution3d(1,10,22,8,8,3,0)
convolution3d(0,4,4,8,8,3,0)
BicubicResize(336,224,0,0.6,0,0,720,480)
AddBorders(8,8,8,8)
#Trim(0,15505).FadeOut(150)

Ignore the lines with the # sign - just trying several different filters and that way I don't have to retype them. Not sure if they are in the right order but...

Second problem is how to download the .mcf template... maybe Kwag will have to help here. I'll email/PM it to you if you want or maybe Kwag or someone else will tell me how to put it in this message.

I'm sure there are better ways but it might be a start.

Cheers

Clive
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  #13  
09-27-2002, 10:53 AM
Lula1 Lula1 is offline
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Hi Clive,

I am pretty interested on this subject too ( please take a look at my reply on this post ). I have downloaded the latest version of TMPGEnc and it does not crash anymore.
I would like to experiment with your settings. What version of AviSynth are you using ?
As for the .mcf (template), I presume you have modified some settings, right ? For instance the fps ( to 29,97 ).
You could also copy and paste the .mcf here, since it is a text file ( you can open it with NotePad ), or please e-mail or PM it to me.
Please take a look at my reply on this post. If you can help I will appreciate.
Thank's
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  #14  
09-27-2002, 02:50 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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thanx clive for the PM. I'll try to encode/burn tonight. However, I'll confess I haven't delved into using avisynth yet - I haven't educated myself on what this intermediate process is actually doing and how it's used. I see alot of people use it, but it's not clear that doing so provides any substantial benefits. I'm a tweaker, but at some point you reach diminishing marginal returns - I'm not willing to add another hour to creating a VCD if it only adds a very small improvement - YMMV.

If this template isn't better than my best one so far, I'll edit and paste mine here to share with others as well.

cheers,
dagger
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  #15  
09-27-2002, 06:58 PM
cybernut cybernut is offline
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Hi Lula and Dagger

I'll put the template here as you suggested with the cut and paste. I hope it works as well for you as it did for me. I did a complete one hour tapew last night and it only came to 455MB so I still have room to increase the bit rate or the CQ. However, I'll wait for another tape as this one had lots of museum snapshots in it. Also it was a more normal tape but it really looks good so I think it might be a start.

Dagger, Avisynth is really quite easy... as long as you only have one copy lying around I got the latest version from Doom9 - 1.07b4 I think. You can always install vcd2svcd and that will install it for you - a great program if you want to experiment.

Anyway, here's the template:

KVC-CQ_V45-VCD(NTSC)mDV.mcf

object TMPEGConfigFile
MPEG.Text = ''
MPEG.WizardCategoryName = ''
MPEG.WizardSubFormatName = ''
MPEG.WizardCaption = ''
MPEG.WizardDescription = ''
MPEG.WizardTargetMedia = MPEGConfig_TargetMediaType_Unknown
MPEG.WizardAutoCalcVideoBitRate = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.EnableVideoSize = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.VideoSize = <>
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.EnableVideoGOP = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.VideoGOP = <>
MPEG.OutputStreamType = MPEG_OutputStreamType_System_VideoAudio
MPEG.OutputStreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.StreamType = MPEGVideoEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1
MPEG.Video.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Width = 352
MPEG.Video.Width_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Height = 240
MPEG.Video.Height_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat = 1
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DC_prec = 0
MPEG.Video.DC_prec_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_VideoEncodeMode_Progressive
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.FrameRate = 4
MPEG.Video.FrameRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio = 12
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_RateControlMode_VBR_Auto
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MinBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MinAvgBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MinAvgBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.CBR_BitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MultipassVBRAlgorithm = MPEGVideoEncoder_MultipassVBRAlgorithm_MultipassCQ
MPEG.Video.VBR_AvgBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxPassCount = 2
MPEG.Video.VBR_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_Quality_B = 20
MPEG.Video.VBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_B = 20
MPEG.Video.MVBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.AVBR_Quality = 45
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MaxBitRate = 1800000
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MinBitRate = 100000
MPEG.Video.AVBR_EnablePadding = True
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality = 78
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_B = 10
MPEG.Video.CQ_MaxBitRate = 1150000
MPEG.Video.CQ_MinBitRate = 300000
MPEG.Video.CQ_EnablePadding = True
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize = 40960
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval = 1
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval_ReadOnly = True
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount = 1
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount_ReadOnly = True
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount = 5823
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount_ReadOnly = True
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount = 3
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount_ReadOnly = True
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit = True
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_MaxFrameCount = 48
MPEG.Video.GOP_MaxFrameCount_ReadOnly = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Profile = 4
MPEG.Video.Profile_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Level = 8
MPEG.Video.Level_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat = 2
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MotionSearchSpeed = MPEGVideoEncoder_MotionSearchSpeed_Slow
MPEG.Video.MotionSearch_AlwaysHalfPel = True
MPEG.Video.UseFloatDCT = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMode = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_Intra = 25
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_NonIntra = 25
MPEG.Video.YUVBasicYCbCr = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
081013161A1B1D221013161A1B1D222513161A1B1D22252616 1A1B1F24252628
1A1B1D24272628301B1D22252628303A1D22252628303A4522 252628303A454F}
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
10121416181A1C1E121416181A1C1E201416181A1C1E202216 181A1E20202224
181A1C20222224261A1C1E20222426281C1E202224262A2A1E 20222426282A2C}
MPEG.Audio.StreamType = MPEGAudioEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_Layer2
MPEG.Audio.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency = 44100
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode = 2
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CantUseMono = False
MPEG.Audio.BitRate = 128000
MPEG.Audio.BitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType = 0
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.StreamType = MPEGSystemEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_VideoCD_Illegal
MPEG.System.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.EnableCommentText = False
MPEG.System.CommentText = ''
end

At least it's a common starting point.

Cheers

Clive
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  #16  
09-27-2002, 07:25 PM
cybernut cybernut is offline
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BTW: You also need the plugins decomb.dll and convolution3d.dll from Doom9. I just put them in my Tmpg directory. You can adjust the avs file to point to them. The two files for convolution included in the other post seem to be the one most people use. The one with the 1 as the first parameter is for noisy video and the one with the zero is for normal video... others are available in the doom9 forums. Just make sure you install avisynth with it's installer program. It contains a file to modify your registry so other programs can find it.

Let me know how you make out.

Cheers

Clive
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  #17  
10-02-2002, 08:32 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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OK - here's my best template so far for creating an XVCD of home videos captured on a DV camcoder. This is after trying many of the standard and KVCD templates and many mods. My objective was to capture a 1-hour miniDV cassett onto a single 80min CDR at the highest subjective quality. These settings are for a captured .avi file at 704x480 resolution, 29.97fps, NTSC. The actual recorded time was 1hr 2min 43sec. I use Ulead VideoStudio 5.0 to capture from my firewire card, and I use Nero 5.5 to burn to CDR and included a 1meg picture for the menu background. This template used 789Meg of the 800Meg on the CDR. The foundation template was kwag's 352x240x2Plus file which I tweaked from there. If anybody uses this one let us know of your results. I feel there may be some fine tuning of the bitrates, but this is close.

Cheers,
dagger


object TMPEGConfigFile
MPEG.Text = ''
MPEG.WizardCategoryName = ''
MPEG.WizardSubFormatName = ''
MPEG.WizardCaption = ''
MPEG.WizardDescription = ''
MPEG.WizardTargetMedia = MPEGConfig_TargetMediaType_Unknown
MPEG.WizardAutoCalcVideoBitRate = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.EnableVideoSize = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.VideoSize = <>
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.EnableVideoGOP = False
MPEG.WizardAutoChooseList.VideoGOP = <>
MPEG.OutputStreamType = MPEG_OutputStreamType_System_VideoAudio
MPEG.OutputStreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.StreamType = MPEGVideoEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1
MPEG.Video.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Width = 352
MPEG.Video.Width_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Height = 240
MPEG.Video.Height_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat = 1
MPEG.Video.YUVFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DC_prec = 0
MPEG.Video.DC_prec_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_VideoEncodeMode_Progressive
MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.FrameRate = 4
MPEG.Video.FrameRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio = 12
MPEG.Video.AspectRatio_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_RateControlMode_CQ
MPEG.Video.RateControlMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MinBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MinAvgBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MinAvgBitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.CBR_BitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MultipassVBRAlgorithm = MPEGVideoEncoder_MultipassVBRAlgorithm_2PASS
MPEG.Video.VBR_AvgBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxPassCount = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.VBR_Quality_B = 20
MPEG.Video.VBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MaxBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_MinBitRate = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_B = 20
MPEG.Video.MVBR_EnablePadding = False
MPEG.Video.AVBR_Quality = 44
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MaxBitRate = 2500000
MPEG.Video.AVBR_MinBitRate = 500000
MPEG.Video.AVBR_EnablePadding = True
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality = 75
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_P = 0
MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_B = 10
MPEG.Video.CQ_MaxBitRate = 3000000
MPEG.Video.CQ_MinBitRate = 500000
MPEG.Video.CQ_EnablePadding = True
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize = 40960
MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval = 1
MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount = 1
MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount = 5823
MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount = 3
MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.GOP_MaxFrameCount = 48
MPEG.Video.GOP_MaxFrameCount_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Profile = 4
MPEG.Video.Profile_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.Level = 8
MPEG.Video.Level_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat = 2
MPEG.Video.VideoFormat_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight = 0
MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Video.MotionSearchSpeed = MPEGVideoEncoder_MotionSearchSpeed_Slow
MPEG.Video.MotionSearch_AlwaysHalfPel = True
MPEG.Video.UseFloatDCT = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMode = True
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_Intra = 0
MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_NonIntra = 0
MPEG.Video.YUVBasicYCbCr = False
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
081013161A1B1D221013161A1B1D222513161A1B1D22252616 1A1B1F24252628
1A1B1D24272628301B1D22252628303A1D22252628303A4522 252628303A454F}
MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
10121416181A1C1E121416181A1C1E201416181A1C1E202216 181A1E20202224
181A1C20222224261A1C1E20222426281C1E202224262A2A1E 20222426282A2C}
MPEG.Audio.StreamType = MPEGAudioEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_Layer2
MPEG.Audio.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency = 44100
MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode = 2
MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CantUseMono = False
MPEG.Audio.BitRate = 128000
MPEG.Audio.BitRate_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC = False
MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag = False
MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType = 0
MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.StreamType = MPEGSystemEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_VideoCD_Illegal
MPEG.System.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
MPEG.System.EnableCommentText = False
MPEG.System.CommentText = ''
end
__________________
Athlon XP1600 @ 1.75G
40G Maxtor 7200
1394 capture card
Ulead Video Studio capture s/w
TMPGEnc and Nero
JVC 915U miniDV source
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  #18  
10-06-2002, 06:56 AM
cybernut cybernut is offline
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Hi Dagger

It's been a long day! I tried your encoding file and found some interesting results. The first thing I noticed was yours was much sharper than mine so I removed the C3D and temporal fileters from avisynth. That got mine close but I was doing an external deinterlace and resize in avisynth and your file was still producing a sharper picture on fast panning so I scanned the various sites and found in www.100fps.com (I think) that if your frame size is less than 240/288 then it is already progressive and there is no need to deinterlace. That improved things. I guess I still really don't know the real answer on interlacing. Kwag or anyone else reading this - do you have the definitive answer?

It turns out that even doing a bilinear resize (the best way if you are making things smaller???) it still produces a mushier result. I hope someone can settle this for me.

Some interesting results came out of all this:
I am using cq100/min100/max2000 and a file size larger 86 vs 84 than yours at cq75/500/3000 (if I remember your settings)
It went up to 97M with a standard GOP and Matrix (Kwag is saving us about 12%)

There was some vast differences in time - factor of 3 or so depending on whether I frameserverd with avisynth or read it directly even if it was doing nothing - well almost nothing.

Your file does produce blocks on PowerDVD but not on WMP or Sasami2k. There must be more filtering on those two. My previous results showed no blocking on the TV so I would expect that would be the same in this case.

A few comments about your template:
1. Tmpgenc suggests changing the output as YCbCr for Dv material - you might want to try that
2. You have soften block noise checked but with a value of 0 - not sure if that does anything.
3. You have a max bitrate of 3000 and I thought that might be a little high for VCD's - have you tried it on your tv? I don't have a bit rate viewer so I can't tell if it ever gets that high - I expect not since my cq100/100/2000 produces a slightly larger file size.

I've decided to produce a special miniDV clip (or does anyone know where I can download one?) that has some different test on it. Some flat darks and lights, printing and some panning and zooming to have a standard to work with.

I know this is rambling a bit but I hope I got the main information across. I still haven't finished - still want to look into interlacing some more and come up with and optimum bitrate vs quality.

Keep me up to date on anything new you try.

Cheers

Clive
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  #19  
10-07-2002, 08:51 PM
dagger dagger is offline
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Clive,

Just luck, I guess . I haven't done any mods to the template yet - I've been trying to play a little bit again with MGEG2. I've got mpeg2 encoding now for my Nero software - and it does a good job fitting the file onto the single disc using a VBR method, but same result as before when I played with TMPGEnc (with the 30 day mpeg2 trial) = poorer quality than mpeg1 for a SINGLE disc application. My guess is that the codecs just aren't given enough bitrate at the higher frame resolution (480x480) to give good quality. Now, I bet if I split my 1 hour DV avi's into 2 avi's, and then made 2 CDR's with mpeg2 it would be a different story. This also applies to kwag's templates as they are geared towards making copies of DVD's with film framerates fit on single CDR's.

I think it was a previous post from kwag, or it may have been a link from someone on the vcdhelp forums which discussed what the variou Quality settings mean and generally perform. This tutorial recommended that the best approach to video compression and encoding is with using the CQ method. That is why I chose the settings I did. I also found and saw other posts that seemed to indicate (I could be wrong here - I hope others jump in with their experience) that going too low with a minimum bit rate, like under 300-500K can cause not only poor picture performance (like blocks), but also some DVD decoders can have problems. The 500 floor seemed to work well, and especially using CQ as the encoding quality method, you should go as high as your DVD player allows and also fits your file size objectives. The article I referred to above states that if you start making the delta between the min and max too close, then the CQ behaviour then starts to operate like other VBR-based methods and won't provide the optimized quality CQ can do if given enough bandwidth. And, to answer your question on my DVD player, I have the new Panasonic RP82 and it has no problem playing these XVCD's at these settings.

Let's see if we, or others can tweak this basic template a little further?

Cheers,
dagger
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