digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]

digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives] (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/)
-   Video Encoding and Conversion (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/)
-   -   Encoding: How to retain as much quality as possible? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/11927-encoding-how-retain.html)

DARcode 09-04-2004 05:50 AM

Encoding: How to retain as much quality as possible?
 
Howdy,
care to enlighten me about when I should go for a KVCD and when for a KSVCD according to the source's original resolution, bitrate and audio in order to retain as much quality as possible?
Just general/basic pointers please, mainly for single CD jobs.
Also, could you please advise in which way the CQ settings affects the transcoding and encoding?

Thanks a lot.

Dc

Prodater64 09-04-2004 06:47 AM

Re: 4 Dialhot: a coupla noob questions...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Howdy,
care to enlighten me about when I should go for a KVCD and when for a KSVCD according to the source's original resolution, bitrate and audio in order to retain as much quality as possible?
Just general/basic pointers please, mainly for single CD jobs.
Also, could you please advise in which way the CQ settings affects the transcoding and encoding?

Thanks a lot.

Dc

Use TMPGEnc.
Use CQMatic.
Encode mpeg1.
Select nearest down horizontal resolution than your source.
Use 128 or maybe 112 Kbps as audiobitrate.
Dont' put more than 120 min in 1 CD80.
Burn your final mpeg as your standalone accepts it, but I prefer SVCD no standard, even if mpg be mpeg1.

CQ, constant quality, tell to the encoder what quality do you want, with a 0 - 100 scale in TMPGEnc. Encoder will keep this CQ, modifyng bitrate, so, in slow scenes, lower bitrate and visceversa. Take as a good CQ near 70 (but there is people that like results with CQ between 55 - 60)

DARcode 09-04-2004 07:07 AM

Thank you very much indeed for your tips :).
I do use TMPGE (both Plus 2.521.58.169 and 3.0 XPress 3.0.4.24).

The vast majority of my sources are above the VCD resolution (352x288) so I'd prefer to go for KSVCD (352x576 right?), does it mean I have to encode to MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-1 or can I choose freely (using TMPGE I'd like to opt for MPEG-1 for quality reasons)?
[Very stoopid question :oops:] As far as K(S)VCD's go what's the main difference between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 (compression ratio? Selectable bitrates)?

Also, what does CQMatic do for you? Calculate the best CQ for the desired output size or format (or both)?

Fianlly, re: "Select nearest down horizontal resolution than your source." :?:, even if my source is for example 480x256 doen't a K(S)VCD alsways have width = 352?

I'll appreciate any further piece of info and help, as well as the tolerance to my inexperience with the subject that it implies :wink:.

P.S.
I visited Mallorca just last month, beautiful vacation spot: I loved the Formentor seaside in the north, the nightlife of El Arenal, the gothic cathedral of Palma, the Cuevas del Drach and the Herbas liquor (dry) :D!

Prodater64 09-04-2004 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
The vast majority of my sources are above the VCD resolution (352x288) so I'd prefer to go for KSVCD (352x576 right?), does it mean I have to encode to MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-1

Most time I'm using 352*576, I think that it is a balanced selection for KVCD to 1CD80.
In my previous post I said you "encode mpeg1". This is no matter what resolution you use. Most standalones accepts mpeg1 multiplexed and burned as SVCD no standard, with whatever resolution.
[quote="DARcode"]
As far as K(S)VCD's go what's the main difference between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 (compression ratio? Selectable bitrates)?
The main difference is the compression algorithm. mpeg1 is tuned to low bitrates. mpeg2 to higher bitrates. I thing if you go to 2 CDs, maybe mpeg2 give your better quality. Same with KDVD. But some people, masters as Dialhot, encode always (almost) mpeg1, even his target be KDVD. One reason, I think, is that TMPGEnc is the best encoder for mpeg1
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Also, what does CQMatic do for you? Calculate the best CQ for the desired output size or format (or both)?

I never used CQMatic, but it do things easier. It find correct CQ and encode through TMPGEnc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Fianlly, re: "Select nearest down horizontal resolution than your source." :?:, even if my source is for example 480x256 doen't a K(S)VCD alsways have width = 352?

With that source resolution, you can choice 480*576, 352*576 or 352*288, i repeat you, don't matter you are encoding mpeg1 or 2.
Maybe you need to multiplex and burn it as SVCD no standard (mpeg1 or 2) as, for example my standalone don't like VCD with no standard resolution but like SVCD with whatever resolution (most standalones accepts mpeg1 or mpeg2 in this way).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
P.S.
I visited Mallorca just last month, beautiful vacation spot: I loved the Formentor seaside in the north, the nightlife of El Arenal, the gothic cathedral of Palma, the Cuevas del Drach and the Herbas liquor (dry) :D!

Another time you come here, let me know and we will met us to each other.

DARcode 09-07-2004 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
The main difference is the compression algorithm. mpeg1 is tuned to low bitrates. mpeg2 to higher bitrates. I thing if you go to 2 CDs, maybe mpeg2 give your better quality. Same with KDVD. But some people, masters as Dialhot, encode always (almost) mpeg1, even his target be KDVD. One reason, I think, is that TMPGEnc is the best encoder for mpeg1.

Very well, I'll settle for MPEG-1 for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
With that source resolution, you can choice 480*576, 352*576 or 352*288, i repeat you, don't matter you are encoding mpeg1 or 2.

And here's another silly question: when the vertical resolution is 256, like in the above example, won't increasing it to 576 degrade quality? Would 288 be better for such a case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
Another time you come here, let me know and we will met us to each other.

Thanks, hopefully I'll be back there next summer, I really enjoyed my time there: not as trendy and crowded like Ibiza but way more lively than Menorca, just perfect.

Dialhot 09-07-2004 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
But some people, masters as Dialhot, encode always (almost) mpeg1, even his target be KDVD. One reason, I think, is that TMPGEnc is the best encoder for mpeg1.

Very well, I'll settle for MPEG-1 for now.

I just want to correct a little this sentence of Pro that I didn't see before : I encode my KDVD in MPEG2 because... for this resolution I use CCE :-).
He is right when he says that MPEG1 is better _for low bitrate_ and for this, tmpgenc is the best encoder. For DVD the bitrates are higher, so you can use an other encoder if you want.

Quote:

And here's another silly question: when the vertical resolution is 256, like in the above example, won't increasing it to 576 degrade quality? Would 288 be better for such a case?
The resolution won't be increased to 576 : the most part of the image will be a black bar !

Prodater64 09-07-2004 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
But some people, masters as Dialhot, encode always (almost) mpeg1, even his target be KDVD. One reason, I think, is that TMPGEnc is the best encoder for mpeg1.

Very well, I'll settle for MPEG-1 for now.

I just want to correct a little this sentence of Pro that I didn't see before : I encode my KDVD in MPEG2 because... for this resolution I use CCE :-).
He is right when he says that MPEG1 is better _for low bitrate_ and for this, tmpgenc is the best encoder. For DVD the bitrates are higher, so you can use an other encoder if you want.

Sorry for the mistake with that erroneous afirmation, related with Dialhot preferences. :oops:
Sometimes I don't understand well what is said in english language.

Maybe for that, most of my encodings look as following:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/error.gif

:lol:

Dialhot 09-07-2004 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodater64
Sorry for the mistake with that erroneous afirmation, related with Dialhot preferences. :oops:
Sometimes I don't understand well what is said in english language.

Don't worry, sometimes I do not understand my post also. Especially when I post them after 4am :D

DARcode 09-07-2004 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
The resolution won't be increased to 576 : the most part of the image will be a black bar !

And I guess that's where AviSynth comes into play with your optimized scripts: to get rid of the black, right?

Could you wrap this thread up with a brief necessary tools and configurations list to get a decent KSVCD job done?

Like:

-grab these tools
-run TMPGE
-configure it as shown here http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2223
-use this AviSynth script [thread/topic?]
-use HeadAC3che for audio with these parameters [thread/topic?]
-watch movie :D

Also, do you use CQMatic? If not what do you use?

Dialhot 09-07-2004 08:39 AM

Follow this guide (sorry, it's french but fully illustrated).
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13391

DARcode 09-07-2004 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Follow this guide (sorry, it's french but fully illustrated).
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13391

That clears up a few doubts, thanks, but my French is pretty poor, so I'll have to browse the English forum some more.

Boulder 09-07-2004 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
And I guess that's where AviSynth comes into play with your optimized scripts: to get rid of the black, right?

Black is your friend in this case, you don't want to get rid of it. The larger the borders, the better the video compresses, thus better quality can be achieved. I don't mind having some borders when viewing the result on my TV, some people have a problem with them. Which one are you? :lol:

Quote:

Could you wrap this thread up with a brief necessary tools and configurations list to get a decent KSVCD job done?
Maybe you should try DIKO?

muaddib 09-07-2004 04:19 PM

DARcode, I know you are doing KVCD/KSVCD, but just to add one more info, it is interesting to get rid of the black borders only if you are doing KDVD and are encoding as anamorphic.

With an AviSynth script you can get rid with black borders to apply filters more efficiently, and put back the borders at the end for encode your KVCD.

DARcode 09-09-2004 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder
Black is your friend in this case, you don't want to get rid of it. The larger the borders, the better the video compresses, thus better quality can be achieved. I don't mind having some borders when viewing the result on my TV, some people have a problem with them. Which one are you? :lol:

I'm a friend of black then :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder
Maybe you should try DIKO?

Isn't it just an interface over several external programs? Also, I like simplicity but still would like to retain control over all settings as my intention is to understand as many as possible with time.
Anyway, I have both TMPGE and HeadAC3che, I guess I just need to get myself comfortable with AviSynth a bit and I'm set.

I just wanted a good dirft/shortcut to get started like: configure TMPGE this way, use this AS script and encode/transcode audio like this with HAC3, basically just a a general configuration I can start experimenting with in order to find the settings which work best for my needs.

DARcode 09-09-2004 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib
DARcode, I know you are doing KVCD/KSVCD, but just to add one more info, it is interesting to get rid of the black borders only if you are doing KDVD and are encoding as anamorphic.

I see, thanks for the info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muaddib
With an AviSynth script you can get rid with black borders to apply filters more efficiently, and put back the borders at the end for encode your KVCD.

Very well, which script would you suggest as a good general purpose one I can start working with?
And would MovieStacker make working AviSynth a little simpler?

muaddib 09-09-2004 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
Very well, which script would you suggest as a good general purpose one I can start working with?

Well, you can try the "optimal scripts" ( http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3483 ) they are very good scripts designed with a lot of work and experiments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DARcode
And would MovieStacker make working AviSynth a little simpler?

For sure MovieStacker will help you start with AviSynth, and will make the process of writing a script a lot simpler. It also has some presets covering the “optimal scripts” that I suggested above. MovieStacker can help the beginner and the experienced, but if you really want to get your hands dirty, you will need to learn how to do it manually too. There are many filters out there for you to play with that MovieStacker do not support right now… you can remove noise, add noise, sharpen, soften, use temporal filters, spatial filters, inverse telecine, deinterlace, convert formats, subtitles, conditional filters, etc, etc, etc… there are endless possibilities. Go for it! It’s a nice and enjoyable hobby. :D


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 PM  —  vBulletin © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd

Site design, images and content © 2002-2022 The Digital FAQ, www.digitalFAQ.com
Forum Software by vBulletin · Copyright © 2022 Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.