Quantcast KVCD: I don't like the GOP - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
09-24-2004, 10:05 AM
dvdguy dvdguy is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey everyone,

Until this morning, I only knew the GOP as a bad political faction, but now I also know it to be a frustrating component of mpg2 creation.

I am using DIKO to convert a XVID file to mpg2 and then author the thing. However, when I go to burn it I get an error from TMPenc: "GOP too big". Now I am not being lazy: I know that it has to be under 30 and I have searched this forum for "GOP too big", and "resize GOP", but I get over 100 results and none of them have been helpful. So my question is: how can I resize the GOP (group of pictures) to make it dvd complaint, ie. how do I get the bleeding thing to be under 30?

I mean, "Group of Pictures"?? Isn't that what a movie is? GOP seems kinda redundant, like having a Group of Sounds for a WAV file. Or maybe I am just a newb.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Site Staff / Ad Manager
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
09-24-2004, 10:23 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
This post should be moved to the DIKO pert of this forum BUT seems to be a general question.

(Beside that GOP general question, which encoder did you choose in DIKO?)

If using CCE the max frames in a GOP can be 15, even in case of NTSC, so that encoder wont produce streams using out of std. GOPs which could be denied by your final DVD authoring application.

In Freenc you can set (where all ini's I know from Freenc do have the right setting) the max KeyFrame intervall to whatever you want as it stands for the length of the GOP. In Freenc we do use as Keyframeinterval 15 (18 at NTSC) and 2 B Frames within a GOP so the GOP should be "IBBPBBPBBPBBPBB" (at NTSC the PB count continues till 18 frames are reached) which is a regular GOP also used by the industry.


A hint:
If you search for words in the forum do search by using "show results as post" and not "as Thread" .... that offers a better overview of what youre looking for
Reply With Quote
  #3  
09-24-2004, 10:27 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
First, please when you are talking about the autoring tool, then do not say "tmpgenc" but "tmpgenc (dvd) author". Because tmpgenc is the encoder.

Second, if tmpgenc author says that your gop is too long, then that means that you probably ask to Diko to encode a KVCD, and not a KDVD. Because VM takes care of the length of the GOP correctly in Diko (I guess).

Third, the GOP for a DVD must be under 18 in NTSC and 15 in PAL. Not 30.

Fourth, the GOP is a subset of pictures delimited by a special mpeg tag (called "GOP header") that allows the codec to resynchronize. That words is a pure MPEG issue. There is no redondancy

And to finish : you CAN'T change the GOP length after encoding. You must restart from the source.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
09-24-2004, 12:40 PM
dvdguy dvdguy is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for your help, I guess that I cannot change the GOP! That sux. I guess I will re-encode the bugger and try your suggestions...with my pentium 1.2 that takes a long time! Trust me.

Thanks agin! Also, I would appreciate it if someone replied with a LOL about my GOP joke in the original question, I thought it was very clever.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
09-24-2004, 03:14 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
Invalid Email / Banned / Spammer
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,726
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
An extra info: Tmpgenc DVD Author and Scenarist NT are known to produce this errors even with standard GOP. DIKO uses standard values for GOP with FreeEnc and CCE.
Other authoring packages like dvdauthor, DVD-Lab and DVD-Maestro don't have this problem.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
09-24-2004, 05:22 PM
dvdguy dvdguy is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you vmesquita! I will try it out and see what happens. I have noticed that only some of my files give that error. How does one check the GOP of a file? I have AVIcodec so I can check the resolution, codec, etc. but it says nothing of GOP. Here is what AVIcodec reads for one of the files it says the GOP is too big for:

Video : 1.70 GB, 8000 Kbps, 29.970 fps, 704*480 (16:9), MPG2 = MPEG 2 (SVCD/DVD),

Audio : 34 MB, 160 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, 0x51 = Mpeg-1 audio Layer 2 [0xc0]

And yes, I am using DIKO so it's FreeEnc is what is being used to do AVI-->DVD. And this is all good, right? Thanks to everyone, I will post a reply as soon as I have checked out my new DVD to see if TMP is wrong!!... I can tell that you all are exploding with anticapation
Reply With Quote
  #7  
09-24-2004, 05:30 PM
dvdguy dvdguy is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wait a sec- You are the company/person who made DIKO?? Wow, that's pretty good mate, I salute you and your talents.

Crazy. I will check in a few min to see if the DVD works. Hey, does this mean I get a free copy of DIKO gold from you? Say yes.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
09-25-2004, 05:07 AM
the viking the viking is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 174
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello,
same problem here,I got the message from TMPGEnc DVDAuthor
that the GOP is too long.I have only ignored it and the final result
looks good on my tv.What causes the message I dont know.

Ive took some screenshot from TMPGEnc GOP-structure tab and placed HERE,the first one shows GOP when using standard DVD-PAL template,the second shows GOP when using
KDVD-Full D1-PAL template.

So if some of you "gurus" will take a look and tell me if its looks okay
ill be happy!

Thanks a lot!
---------------------

Finn
Reply With Quote
  #9  
09-25-2004, 05:33 AM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Palma de Mallorca - España
Posts: 2,925
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you are using FreeEnc as engine, take a look at you Default.ini or Incredible.ini files in FreeEnc folder.
First parameter is GOP_size.
Check if it is 15 for PAL or 18 for NTSC encodings.
If you are using CCE, GOP size is fixed at 15.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
09-28-2004, 05:57 PM
dvdguy dvdguy is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fair enough, Dialhot, that GOP is needed to resync the movie. But I still think the name itself is redundant

My ini files all read 15 GOP so that can't be it.

The GOP problem seems to be fine and my DVDs work just great in the stand-alone DVD players that my friends have. But I am afraid that I have created a non-standard DVD format and it only works because my friends all have new DVD players. So I will see if it works in my mum's old player next week but I think TMP is wrong.

Isn't this cool though? I mean, being able to author DVDs that have moving menus and everything?!?! I'm lovin it. I know what I'm doing this Fall Break....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
09-29-2004, 01:02 AM
kev23m kev23m is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: India
Posts: 185
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tmpgenc Dvd Author gives that error for most of my encodes, though i just choose to ignore and they play perfectly on the standalone.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
09-29-2004, 03:20 AM
jorel jorel is offline
Invalid Email / Banned / Spammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Brasil - MG - third stone from the sun
Posts: 5,570
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
If you are using FreeEnc as engine, take a look at you Default.ini or Incredible.ini files in FreeEnc folder.
First parameter is GOP_size.
Check if it is 15 for PAL or 18 for NTSC encodings.
If you are using CCE, GOP size is fixed at 15.
hi Pró.
with tmpgenc....
don't know if anyone remember: when i was encoding
Sarah Brightman- La Luna i adjust to GOP 12 cos the musical have lots of sokes effects and with GOP values 15, 18 and 24 the image was "breathing"..."pulsing".like i wrote in one thread in best scripts forum.
using GOP12 works perfect and was Phil and Kwag(maybe others friends too) that help me to understand how i could use the Gop values.
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4972&start=0
and here later: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=16

with Lion King 3 happen the same: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....ight=breathing

Quote:
If you are using CCE, GOP size is fixed at 15
but in CCE the GOP have differents parameters for adjusts!?!?
adjusts are:
M=3
N/M=4 (ntsc) or N/M=5 (pal-G)
SEQ reader=1
i don't understood what you mean Pró!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
09-29-2004, 03:37 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
i don't understood what you mean Pró!
He was talking about the settings for CCE that are done in Diko : Diko use a GOP of 15 for PAL and NTSC if you choose to encode with CCE.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM  —  vBulletin © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd