Quantcast DVD-RB and Audio Stuttering? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
10-12-2004, 01:30 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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I've been using DVD-RB for a couple weeks now, and use RB-Opt to change the default CCE settings to conform with the notch matrix. However every single disc I make suffers from random audio stuttering, where the audio suddenly drops out for a second. The latest release of DVD-RB 0.63a is supposed to fix this, but I'm still having problems. I'm trying to narrow down the cause. Has anyone else had this problem when using the notch matrix? I'm not sure if this may also be because of using DVD Stripper or VobBlanker to remove unwanted VTS material, such as extras and trailers. Currenlty I'm trying PgcEdit to do the same thing, waiting to see if this solves it.
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  #2  
10-12-2004, 02:05 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Have you tried v0.60b?

Using the notch matrix shouldn't have anything to do with the issue.
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  #3  
10-12-2004, 02:17 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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I have never tried v0.60b. Has that one given you the least problems? I've only used v0.61 and now v0.63a. Unfortunately I don't even know how to download previous versions because they only seem to keep the most current on in the Doom9 forum.

Also, I know one would THINK that using the notch matrix wouldn't be causing this problem... But I'm using RB-Opt to change all the CCE settings to from default to notch matrix parameters, and maybe this is just "too much" for RB to handle. What I really want to know is if anyone else in this forum has encounted the same issue.
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  #4  
10-12-2004, 02:22 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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The v0.60b was attached to the big Star Wars thread at D9 if I remember correctly. It is a version which probably works best, 0.63a is still a bit questionable. You might be able to rebuild with v0.60b so you don't have to re-encode if the DVD-RB working folder still has the stuff from your last project.
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  #5  
10-12-2004, 04:31 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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okay, I download v0.60b and used it to rebuild the D2AVS folder I had created with 0.63a, but the stuttering didn't go away. Do you think I have to run the Prepare and Encode all over again?

ohmigod, I just finished a prepare and reencode using 0.60b. Stuttering still there! Although a bit less. Going to try encoding with the cce standard matrix. This is darn annoying...!
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  #6  
10-12-2004, 06:05 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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I just encoded again using 0.60b, but didn't use RB-Opt to change CCE settings to conform to the notch matrix. The audio dropouts wer still there, but were much shorter than my last test with the notch matrix.

Please, I know there are other DVD-Rb users in this forum. Are you guys getting error free encodes? Please help me!
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  #7  
10-12-2004, 07:43 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Wo
The audio dropouts wer still there, but were much shorter than my last test with the notch matrix.
The matrix doesn't have anything to do with audio

-kwag
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  #8  
10-13-2004, 12:41 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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You should post the problems to the D9 forum as the author will appreciate any info he can get regarding the matter.
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  #9  
10-13-2004, 12:06 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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@boulder: yes, I have been doing so. So far people haven't been all too helpful (many have said "just don't use the notch matrix!"). I understand Kwag's point that the matrix has nothing to do with audio dropouts. BUT, dvd-rb is in beta stage and already does not like a lot of things. For example, any pre-processsing with vobblanker or pgcedit to remove unwanted material (extras, trailers, etc) has been reported to lead to these same audio dropouts. Rb has a lot of bugs in it still, and it looks like the dropouts occur somewhere during the remux/rebuilding stage. So it's entirely possible that changes to CCE settings (i.e. gop, matrix, etc) can also lead to these audio dropouts.

While I am still in discussion in several threads on doom9 about this, my main question for people in THIS forum is: Have you experienced any audio dropouts using RB and RB-Opt to tweak the CCE settings for notch matrix usage? After so many replies nobody has answered this simple question that I posed in the very first post.
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  #10  
10-13-2004, 12:59 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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No, zero audio dropouts. Matrices have nothing to do with them. As you said, it's most likely the rebuilding/remuxing.
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  #11  
10-13-2004, 01:26 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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Thanks boulder. I only use the following for filtering:
Code:
Crop(28,20,-28,-20)
FluxSmoothT()
AddBorders(20,20,20,20)
Perhaps cropping to 704x480 is causing some problems. As for Rb-Opt, I change the CCE settings to:
Code:
DC Precision - 8
Gop Length - 15
Quantizer Characteristics - 25
Min Bitrate - 64
Max Bitrate - 5500
Matrices - Custom (notch)
Do you have anything different?
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  #12  
10-13-2004, 02:27 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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The only thing that might cause issues is the min bitrate. Try to raise that to 300 or so. Cropping cannot cause such behaviour.

As they also told you in that thread at D9, preprocessing might cause problems. The only preprocessing I've done is that I've compressed the menus as DVD-RB doesn't touch them at all. Maybe you should try a non-preprocessed conversion to check that point.

BTW, you shouldn't use 20-pixel borders, they should always be mod-8 for optimal compression.
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  #13  
10-13-2004, 05:23 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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well, I just ran Rb v0.60b with no preprocessing, no cropping, and no CCE alterations. This means all CCE settings were left at the default ones that Rb determined after the prepare phase. I didn't use notch matrix but rather left at standard matrix. But the min/max bitrate was set at 0/9000, so I don't think my previous min of 64 was "too low".

Anyway, the burned result still had audio dropouts, but they were less than before. I'm pretty much at a loss, but now that it doesn't appear to be a matrix problem I really don't know where to go from here.
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  #14  
10-14-2004, 12:21 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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CCE doesn't keep the minimum bitrate very well, this has been discussed here on the forum. So I wouldn't be surprised if that was the problem. Some players really don't like low bitrates and this is especially true with DVDs.

You can change the default min and max bitrate by adding these entries to rebuilder.ini in the DVD-RB folder, in the [Options] section:

min_bitrate=nnnn
max_bitrate=nnnn
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  #15  
10-14-2004, 02:27 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Wo
Rb has a lot of bugs in it still, and it looks like the dropouts occur somewhere during the remux/rebuilding stage. So it's entirely possible that changes to CCE settings (i.e. gop, matrix, etc) can also lead to these audio dropouts.
you're completely correct J-Wo.
for more that i can read, i learn more about corrections than about results.
dvd-eb still need lots of "repairs". i'm still waiting for a working version.
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  #16  
10-14-2004, 02:33 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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The amount of bugs is not a surprise. The DVD structure is a very complex thing and as there are a huge amount of different standalone players with some very strictly to the standards and others not, it's a tough job trying to make it work on every player.

I'd say the output works in 95% of all standalones, if not even more. There's always media issues etc. which need to be considered as well.
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  #17  
10-14-2004, 02:56 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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you're right too Boulder and i can't forget to post that jdobbs(and wmansir) suport is wonderfull, his dedication for dvd-rb is laudable.
great tools have problems but in the end dvd-rb will be amazing !
i'm between your opinion and J-Wo's opinion in this moment
and i "can't wait" for a really working version!
dvd-rb have problems but will be a wonderful toy...i only need to wait!
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  #18  
10-14-2004, 06:14 AM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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thanks for the tip re: min bitrate boulder. Many have reported tho that these audio dropouts occur during periods of *high* bitrate. For me they always occur during a fast camera pan or when a loud sound effect is occuring. Some suspect that the problem is CCE is not maintaining the desired MAX bitrate. This might make sense because with default settings, RB sets bitrates for 0-9000. But if I change things for notch matrix purposes I use 64-5500. So maybe you're right, maybe it is a min bitrate problem. But it is does seem a little contradictory.... at least to me.
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  #19  
10-14-2004, 06:19 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Yes, there are sometimes very high spikes in the bitrate graph. However, I've used CCE a lot and DVD Maestro (a very strict program) hasn't complained once about a too high bitrate.

A too high or a too low bitrate can cause problems due to VBV buffer under- and overflows. That's why the hiccups may occur in either case.

Try to do a copy with min=1000 and max=5000, that way we should see whether the bitrate is the problem.
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  #20  
10-14-2004, 11:01 AM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder
Try to do a copy with min=1000 and max=5000, that way we should see whether the bitrate is the problem.
Right now I'm doing min=300, max=9000 to see if the min was the problem, but I'll try your suggestion next. Annoying thing is the whole encode+rebuild process takes at least 95 minutes -- and that's cause right now all my tests are done with NO filters just to speed things up.

Jdobbs (author of dvd-rb) also suggests I try VBR encoding, that OPV may be the problem. To be quite honest I've *never* tried VBR with CCE, since it seems to be standard kdvd practice to use OPV. But I'll give it a try for sure... I'll report back in a couple hours!
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