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  #1  
11-13-2004, 07:43 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Hi friends: I want to ask you if now, that here remain only people really interested in "Advanced Video Conversion", what do you think about unlock Mencoder subforum. There are some news, as encoding audio ac3 and mp2 that seems not to be bad audio. Also Peter Cheat will release a Mencoder version with control rate fixed.

I want to post here, previously to a public post, following command line that will encode a mpeg2 system file (is only 1 pass for testing purposes, but you all know how to set 2 pass). There is other parameters if you want, for example convert 29.97 interlaced to 25 fps. I am asking in forum if inserting or droping frames is a good solution, as command line, without -noskip option will drop frames but movie lenght won't change and audio will be in sync.

Code:
"D:\MPlayer\Mencoder.exe" -of mpeg -ffourcc MPG2 -sws 2 -noaspect -noautoexpand -vf crop=710:480:5:0,scale=320:432::0:9,expand=352:480:-1:-1 -ovc lavc -oac lavc -lavcopts acodec=mp2:abitrate=128:vcodec=mpeg2video:dc=8:vrc_eq=tex:vmax_b_frames=2:preme=2:precmp=2:vstrict=-1:scplx_mask=0.3:vqblur=0:mbqmin=1:vqmin=1:lmin=.5:aspect=1.3333:vrc_buf_size=1835:vbitrate=3500:vrc_maxrate=8000:keyint=15:intra_matrix=notch matrix -ofps 25 "E:\29I25B.vob" -o "E:\29I25B.mpg"
-ffourcc MPG2 write MPG2 fourcc in header.
-ffourcc MPG1 write MPG1 fourcc in header.
We can say is a header trick.
Other audio options can be selected as volume, channels, frequency in Hz (I don't know how it is called, audiorate?), etc.

What do you think?
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  #2  
11-14-2004, 06:33 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Luis,
I really think mencoder was not cut out for Windows users...
I still use it a lot, but I must be honest: ever since FreeEnc and NuEnc appeared I have slowly started to move away from mencoder.
It is an excellent encoder (and player!) but it is also very hard to tweak and most users always do something wrong with it.
What the heck, I already use it for a long time and once in a while I still screw it up
Though, I must confess that *nix guys don't have much choice and they have had their forum closed.
After all, they were the ones that started the party.
So I guess that opening that forum would be a not so good idea.
I would open up a new Mencoder forum and leave that one closed and I would make a big disclaimer advising windows users that it is a very hard encoder to work with.
Just my 0.02€.
Cheers guys
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  #3  
11-14-2004, 11:23 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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I think we should wait a little longer.
Mencoder/ffmpeg were really designed for streaming video. Not to be put on media (VCD/DVD, etc.)
They even admitted that ( the ffmpeg group ) some time ago on the mailing lists.

-Karl
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  #4  
11-14-2004, 04:52 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Peter Cheat will release a Mencoder version with control rate fixed.
Then the forum will be reopened.

My two cents.
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  #5  
11-14-2004, 04:59 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Peter Cheat will release a Mencoder version with control rate fixed.
And I still have to see that to believe it
I think it's not a matter of "Fixing". It's a matter of "rewriting" it, because the source code is a glob of a mess

@Phil,

You know C.
Have you taken a close look at the rate control file on avcodec
If you do, I think you'll agree with me.

-Karl
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  #6  
11-14-2004, 05:15 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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No I didn't Karl so won't give any advice on other people work, furthermore when I'm just a user of their work and never put a finger in the process
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  #7  
11-14-2004, 05:21 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
No I didn't Karl
When you have some time, look at the mess it is, specially at the scarse documented lines
http://up1.fastuploads.com/ratecontrol.c.zip

-Karl
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  #8  
11-15-2004, 03:55 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
I think it's not a matter of "Fixing". It's a matter of "rewriting" it, because the source code is a glob of a mess
Even me, a libavcodec addicted: I agree, as till now no proof has been made that streams will result in specs we do need. All other approaches are still testings and tryouts, means ... risky for noobs.

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  #9  
11-15-2004, 09:26 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Well,
I've put some hard thinking about this and here's what I came up with.
Ain't ffmpeg/Mencoder/FreeEnc/NuEnc/QuEnc, all libavcodec based encoders?
The libavcodec problems present in one of them are obviously present in all of them.
So, if we enforced (and still do enforce) the usage of one of them, I see no reason for us to advise users not to use the other ones.
Unless in mencoder and ffmpeg case.
Mencoder has much more features than any other libavcodec based encoder because it uses internal filtering instead of Avisynth filtering.
We can try to emulate the usage of Avisynth in mencoder via makeAVIS but it will always be a big pain...
So if the issues that made us close Mencoder forum were just libavcodec related I think it would be more than fair to reopen it if Peter Cheat's release is as good as the NuEnc release.
If the issues that made us close Mencoder forum were more than libavcodec related then I think we should keep it closed until those are clearly solved.
Also in this last case, even if our users are in majority windowze users, we have to remind ourselves that there are also *nix users amongst us.
And for them, Mencoder and ffmpeg are basically the only encoders they have good or bad but nevertheless the only thing they have.
I think we should find a way for them to post and discuss Mencoder/FFmpeg related issues.
If we see that it's starting to go out of orbit again then we just have to shut it again...
Again, just my two cents.
Cheers
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11-15-2004, 10:45 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
The libavcodec problems present in one of them are obviously present in all of them.
So, if we enforced (and still do enforce) the usage of one of them, I see no reason for us to advise users not to use the other ones.
Personally I tried almost all and use none.
Where do you see that there is a "privilegied" tool on the forum ? For me all encoders based on this librairy are the same. I just had a little "grace" for freenc just because it is done by VM.

Note: I did not tried last Peter tool
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  #11  
11-15-2004, 11:31 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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I haven't tried Peter's tool yet. But based on users feedback here and at doom9 (yes I do lurk there once in a while ), i see the same old problems.
And I haven't seen a single source line of Peter merged into the mencoder group, where the source CVS is hosted.
It's not only a rate control problem. There are MANY muxing issues, where the final mpeg is not compliant, broken, etc.
One day I encoded a movie using FreeEnc, and after it was done, I couldn't even open the .m2v in Vdub or bitrate viewer
This has happened to me a couple of times, so I suspect many hidden bugs on avcodec.

-kwag
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  #12  
11-15-2004, 01:16 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
One day I encoded a movie using FreeEnc, and after it was done, I couldn't even open the .m2v in Vdub or bitrate viewer
This has happened to me a couple of times, so I suspect many hidden bugs on avcodec.

-kwag
I can say you just opposite. I have not, ever, any problem with mencoder.
I have read a lot mencoder mailing list. Never read a CLI as I posted previously here. That give you a perfect mpeg2. Does somebody test it.
Why nobody commented that command line?
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  #13  
11-15-2004, 01:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64

I can say you just opposite. I have not, ever, any problem with mencoder.
Hi Luis,

There's not a single difference from mencoder, ffmpeg, ffmpegX, FreeENC, QuENC or NuEnc, on the final encoded file
They all have to call libavcodec, so the final result is identical.
The only advantage with mencoder is that it has a lot of "pre" filters/functions, so it's a better front end.

-Karl
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  #14  
11-15-2004, 01:48 PM
rendalunit rendalunit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
I can say you just opposite. I have not, ever, any problem with mencoder.
I've done over 90 movies so far with mencodeme and freenc and I've only seen one problem with the picture breaking up but I'm sure this was because of bad media. I've seen big bitrate spikes at the very beginning of the movies I encode but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I've been hoping to encounter the same problems you guys have seen but it just hasen't happened yet.
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11-15-2004, 02:18 PM
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Hi,

I'm playing with nuenc (not only CQ mode! ), and I double check the bitrate (with BV and rempeg2), and with the 2 sampls I did, I don't get high bitrates (I put 5000 as max, and I get 4800). I'm just analizing a full movie (Spiderman!), to see the result (average bitrate 1448, and max bitrate 5000), and I get average 1450, and pick 4829, so I think there is no more problems with Peter Cheat modifications.

Just give it a try, and you'll see.

Salu2,
Fabrice
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  #16  
11-15-2004, 04:38 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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@Karl,
If you do lurk a bit at D9 once in a while, you'll find that Peter always said he won't commit any CVS changes until he's pretty sure that his code is bullet proof when it comes to underflows.
As to muxing problems, we all know that if we see underflows during the encoding, we'll probably have muxing problems.
I for one don't see any underflow problems (maybe 'cos I aim at high bitrates) and I never have any muxing problems too.
I do see one problem with VDub with all libavcodec based encoders.
If I open an m2v file in VDub and I hit the "File information..." option, VDub crashes silently not giving me a single hint on what was wrong .
And I've seen underflows and PTS messages in Mencoder while aiming for low bitrates.
@all,
Currently I am not testing anything due to a huge lack of time.
But I hope Peter succeeds in his quest.
After all, libavcodec is the only way to free encoding.
And even if it's not the best quality, I'd like to have it around for those who can't afford CCE's and Co.
Cheers guys
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