Quantcast KVCD: Interlaced or Progressive? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
03-28-2005, 09:19 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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Kwag i just had a look at the website you recomended on another post 100fps.com, b4 this i hadnt a clue what interlacing was but now i have some insight. thanks

question.

1. pal dvds, how can we check if they are interlaced or progressive? by just viewing them on fast scenes? are most pal dvds progressive?
i ask because we recently bought a panasonic plasma and dvd that can do PAL progressive. so im trying to do all my conversion to better suite that.
2. im using tmpg enc 3 to convert to achieve a progressive video file, if i have a interlaced dvd, should i use script on avisynth to deinterlace then encode chosing option VIDEO MODE: Progressive

3. does encoding progressive video give you a bigger file?
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  #2  
03-28-2005, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khusru
1. pal dvds, how can we check if they are interlaced or progressive? by just viewing them on fast scenes? are most pal dvds progressive?
With you eyes, parsing the file in DVD2AVI (or DGIndex). Yes. And yes.

Quote:
if i have a interlaced dvd, should i use script on avisynth to deinterlace then encode chosing option VIDEO MODE: Progressive
If NTSC true interlaced or Pal interlaced : keep it interlaced.
If NTSC pulled down : encore it pulled down
If PAL progressive : I let you guess

Quote:
3. does encoding progressive video give you a bigger file?
No, that is the opposite.
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  #3  
03-29-2005, 05:03 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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PAL can also look combed but be phase shifted. You can check this by using Telecide(order=x) in a script that only loads the source in addition to that. If the motion is smooth, it's phase shifted, thus use Telecide right after loading the source and process and encode as progressive.
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03-29-2005, 07:25 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks guys
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03-29-2005, 07:42 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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there is an option to de-interlace in tmpg. would this be enough to de-interlace or is a script always necessary?
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  #6  
03-29-2005, 07:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The only thing valuable in tmpgenc is the video encoding engine. Forget all others.

Btw a script is ALWAYS necessary (or at least better) , whatever you want to do !
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03-29-2005, 08:57 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks mate your advice is always top notch
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03-30-2005, 01:15 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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im going to run some tests on this dvd i have. Its NTSC inverse telecine( very bad combing on fast scenes) and i want to convert to NTSC progressive, im using tmpg 3

Heres my script

Mpeg2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Khusru Miah\My Documents\movies\TESTS\TEST.d2v")
Telecide(order=1)
Decimate()
undot()
asharp(1, 4)
GripCrop(704, 480, overscan=2, source_anamorphic = true, dest_anamorphic = true)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter( -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -
(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)) ).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) , 1, 1) ")

GripBorders()

function fmin( int f1, int f2) {
return ( f1<f2 ) ? f1 : f2
}


the script seems to have eliminated the combing but i do get an error message :

Scripterror: Syntax error
([scriptclip]), line 2, column 0)

and i did an encode with this script and iv got a huge borders left and right, instead of the anamorphic wide i wanted, the screen size looks fine in the preview window on the options menus, but when i encode the preview screen there shows big borders and also the output video has big borders
can u help please?

If im going to encode to progressive using 2 pass vbr should i change the values of min, average, max bitrate lower?
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  #9  
03-30-2005, 02:58 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The scriptclip lien has to be on a single line, with no break. check taht this is what you have.

The border are not so big, they are 16 pixel wide and that is the normal with overscan=2. What is the media player you use to check the result ? Do not use wmp please !

And try to remove the blur line to have more sharpness in your result.
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03-30-2005, 05:09 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks mate script works great now, im telling you this site is overwhelming, iv spent most of today just reading about interlacing.


i use power dvd to check the results

im going to burn some of the tests iv done to dvd now and watch on tv to see whats best.

should i use lower min,max, average bitrate values beacause i am encoding progressive?
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  #11  
03-30-2005, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khusru
should i use lower min,max, average bitrate values beacause i am encoding progressive?
Use 0-6000 if you have only one movie on your DVD. Use 4500 for max if you plan to put 2 movies.

Logically for encoding in interlaced, you should use something 10% above (as interlace needs more bitrate).
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03-30-2005, 07:44 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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did some tests and watched on widescreen tv

i still had the black bars left and right, i worked out that its not my script but tmpg3, i ran the same encode on 2.5 and the result video was normal size, i cant seem to find the option in tmpg 3 to configure this. the file info after i load the script in tmpg say the video is 733*512, shouldnt this be 720*480??

i encoded the video at ntsc 29.97 fps progressive(anamorphic wide)
the progressive tests i did definatly looked clearer with better colours and definition on outlines, even on fast scenes. Using higher bit rate made the the blockiness on music numbers minimal (bollywood dvd). but at the same time the motion was not that smooth , little jerky to be fair.

i made a mistake in my script, after checking my video its a bottom field first video so it should have been 0 in telecide. could that have been the reason video was jerky? or
will changing the frame rate to 23.97fps help solve the jerkiness?
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  #13  
03-31-2005, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khusru
or
will changing the frame rate to 23.97fps help solve the jerkiness?
I will go for a 23.976 pulled down.
Progressive 29.970, even if it is valid, should never be used IMHO.
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  #14  
03-31-2005, 10:51 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks mate giving it a go.
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  #15  
04-04-2005, 10:39 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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on NTSC progressive picture DVDS is the frame rate 23.97 ( internally 29fps) or is it actually 23.976 fps?
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  #16  
04-04-2005, 10:49 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The only fps accepted by DVD players for NTSC format is 29.970. SO sources are either "23.976 internaly 29.970" or 29.970 (progressive or interlaced). They can't be 23.976 progressive.
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04-16-2005, 08:13 PM
khusru khusru is offline
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thanks for all your help Phil.

iv been scanning through all my NTSC Dvds to check if any of them are progressive, to my surprise none of them are, not even some of the most recent ones. all 29 fps interlaced
Can you get NTSC Progressive dvds??
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04-17-2005, 02:45 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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How did you scan them?

NTSC DVDs are usually either hard telecined, which means IVTC'ing will return the original progressive frames at 23.976fps or a pulldown has been done, which means Force FILM in DGIndex gets the progressive frames back as well. The latter case is much more common.

Truly interlaced NTSC DVDs are usually live concert footage, extras etc. Movies are very rarely truly interlaced.
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04-17-2005, 08:35 AM
khusru khusru is offline
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iv just been cutting out a chapter, putting it in tmpg3 to encode, and on the source window it will say progreesive or interlaced, but i always check by running the source cut edit screen, and look through the video to see if its interlaced. all the ones i did had combing on fast scenes
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04-17-2005, 10:22 AM
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You can't rely on TMPGEnc in any case.

Save a project with Force FILM enabled. Open the project file in Notepad and scroll down to the bottom of the file. What's the film percentage? If it's 95 or more, you can use force film. Otherwise you must determine whether it's hard telecined, which has a pattern of 3 non-combed frames followed by 2 combed or truly interlaced.
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