Settings in RB-OPT 0.17 Beta for my KDVDs?
 

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to know what are the optimal settings for RB-OPT version 0.17 Beta when used with DVD-RB.

I have DVD-RB Pro version 0.93.2 and I usually use the 3 click mode to make my backups and use RB-OPT for OPV prediction and KDVD template for CCE.

I am backup up my 'Planet of the Apes TV Series" which comes on 4 DVD's and the first 3 DVD's have 4 episodes with the last DVD having just 2 episodes.

My source is PAL and as so I assume Progressive.

There are 4 VOB-ID's (1 ID per episode I presume) which are:

VTS 1 - Vob-ID 1
VTS 1 - Vob-ID 2
VTS 1 - Vob-ID 3
VTS 1 - Vob-ID 4

Do I leave these 4 eps seperate or do I join them as one ID? The reason I ask is I didn't I treated them one at a time and did the settings seperately.

These are the settings I use:

Click the OPV radio button.
Click the CCE Settings button. Then:

Passes: 2
DC PRecision: 8
Gop Length: 15
Block Scan Order: Zig-Zag <--Although I am not sure of this setting whether it should be Alternative or not.
Progressive: Haven't a clue, I assume I have to tick it as my source is Progressive.
Min Bitrate: 64
Max Bitrate: 6500
Quantization Matrices: Custom, KDVD

I don't touch any other of the settings in RB-OPT, is this correct.

In OPV Prediction

Predictions options.

Sample size: 1
Safety Margin: 2
GOPs per range: 3
Double Pass: Unticked
Launched Encoder Minimised: Ticked

Hit predict.

I was gettings Q's of about 69-70 per VOB-ID's, I thought this was bad.

I set up DVD-RB Pro as SansGrip said in this post ages ago, although the options have slightly changed now it seems.

Can someone please tell if I have done this correct as I haven't backup up a DVD for ages and sort of forgotten how to use this tool. :D

What you did is almost the optimal. But what is important to know is :

- do you used some filters in the advanced avisynth option of DVD-RB ? If not you should at least put :
- what is the length in minutes of the total ?

BTW what I'd suggest is to change the maxium video bitrate to 6000, or even 4500 if you have more than 3 hours (remember that KDVD is correct with 4 hours in widescreen, but no more than 3h in full screen !)

Hi Phil,

Again thank you so much for your rapid resonse I appreciate your help and wisdom.

Each episode is 0:47:47.

Approx 3hrs and 12 mins.

Can you please explain to me what the Letterbox line is for Phil as I don't really understand.

Where would I add these lines Phil at the end?

Here is the AviSynth default script (In RB-Opt):

Addional info on the back of the box.

Aspect ratio: 1.33:1

Full Frame: 4:3

Hi Phil,

I just downloaded RemoveGrain for the site: http://www.removegrain.de.tf/

I hope that is the correct url.

I am confused there are 12 .dll files in there. Do I extract all the files in the zip to my AviSynth plugin folder or just the RemoveGrain.dll

I appreciate your help on this matter.

DVD-RB encode all in 720x576. And we all know that the active area of the picture is 704x576. And I do not talk about overscan that adds some more useless pixels.
The letterbox command put black pixels all arround the picture. As these pixels won't be displayed on the TV, the black ones will be compressed a lot more than the original pixels of the picture.

In DVD Rebuilder ! As said in my previous post.
Option -> Avisynth option -> advanced -> filters (something like this. I'm using DVD-RB right now so the menu is grayed and I can't check)

I'm not surprise about your Q value then.

Filters + max videobitrate to 4500 will be better.

Thanks again Phil for your answers.

I remember now from SansGrip post that you suggested 4500 as a max, I forgot and put 6500 instead. Thanks for clearing that up for me along with the Letterbox command now I understand.

I appreciate your wisdom.

On the RemoveGrain front I have a Pentium 3 so which one do I use and do I extract all the files or just certain ones.

Also there is repair.dll & SSETools.dll what are these?

Thanks again Phil.

First there is two filters in one package : removegrain and repair. We do not need repair, so you can drop all the dll related to it.
Second, I have a pentium 4, with SSE2, and I use only RemovegrainSS2.dll. I guess that with a P3 you need to use only RemoveGrain.dll.

I don't know about the last one. Surely something new. Read the doc :)
(but you don't have SSE2 so I guess this is not for you anyway).

Note: I didn't see that :Remove these two lines !

(Again, this is in DVD-RB that you fix that. you have to uncheck two options that are checked by default).

Line 8 was for CCE 2.50. Line 9 is needed only on an Athlon ! This is not your case.

Hi Phil,

I just checked the options in DVD-RB here is what I have:

AVS Options:

ConvertToYUY2(): Ticked
AudioDub(BlankClip()): Ticked
Filter Editor: Selecting this pops up a box where I can add my script which will appear after the trim() line it says. Then click Save & Exit.
Deinterlace with DECOMB: Unticked
Set Decoder iDCT: Decoder Default
Disable Interlace: <--- Should I put a checkmark against 'Apply to All' this is unticked at present and my source being Progressive I thought I should tick it?

The filters have to be put into the Filter Editor (paste the three line I gave to you into the widow that pops up)
And the two first "tickled" options are the two one you have to untickle.

Edit: about disable interlace : it seems that here DVD-RB detects that your source is not progressive - see the "interlaced = true" put in the "ConvertoYUY2 line- . If you are sure that it is, then yes you have to check this option. But generally it is not necessary (I never had to check it).

Again Phil thank you so much for your time and patients with me you have taught me so much and now hopefully I can go away and produce a great quality back up.

I really appreciate your answers thank you Phil. :)

You're welcome.

BTW, as we are talking about DVD-RB : there is a incompatibility with it and DVDDecrypter 3.5.4 (I didn't have this before).! The two DVD I did since I have 3.5.4 and dvd-RB 0.93 suffer the same problem : DVD-RB do not read the correct length for the movie (it told the movie was 777 MB insteed of 4.6 GB !)

I solved this by using DVDShrink to ripp the DVD insteed of DVDDecrypter.

Thanks for the tip Phil I shall use Shrink to rip the DVD just to be on the safe side.

Do u think future updates of DVD-RB will solve this problem?

Hi Phil,

I don't know if this problem has been fixed in the updated version.

I have the Pro 0.93.2 version and I read this from the Rebuilder Readme:

I don't see anyone reporting the problem on doom9 forum so I don't think the author is aware. But it's probably due to options I checked in dvddecrypter because I guess that you used it also and you don't have the problem.

Hi Phil,

I haven't had any probs yet I will let you know on this thread if things don't work out correctly. :)

Hi Phil,

I just ran my VOBs of my DVD through DGIndex and hit the F5 button and previewed my video and it has reported the Frame Type as Interlaced.

The reason I checked this is because when checking my script in RB-Opt the last line said this: "11 - ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)"

So I had to quickly check this in DGIndex to confirm if it is Interlaced.

EDIT: So I made sure that Progressive is Unticked in RB-Opt CCE Settings.

EDIT2: Is ZigZag still the best method to use if the source is Interlaced or does this not matter what the source is?

Phil I got this error for CCE SP Trail 2.67 (Using EclCCE.exe):

Frame size 796x56 is not supported. Supported frame sizes up to 720x576

Here is my script in RB-Opt:

I think the error lies with RemoveGrain.

I looked at the script in WMP and I got this error: unable to load plugin.

avisynth error -> open the script in virtualdub to see the text of the error.

I took a section from the RemoveGrain Readme regarding ColorSpaces and YUY2()

It seems to be a problem with RemoveGrain Phil.

This is a quote from my last post on page 1:

I can't tell. Perhaps it can't be run on P3.
In this case, just replace it by Undot().

Solved it Phil.

I replaced RemoveGrain.dll and replaced it with RemoveGrainS.dll in my AviSynth plugin folder I edited my script in RB-Opt and tested it with the Test button and it worked fine.

Prediction works fine also now.

Phew im glad I sorted that one out, had me worried for a minute. :D

Well I finished my encodes RB-OPT gave me average Q's of 39-40 per VTS.

I get a slight pixelation in the intro when the bright scene comes but I guess I have to expect that with just a high Q and trying to fit 3+ hours full screen on a 4.7Gb DVD+R.

You must admit though im getting better. :D I didn't need you to hold my hand evey step of the way, when I ran into a problem I read the docs that came with RemoveGrain and found out how to solve the plugin AviSynth error. At least im not as bad as WOWIEGURL. :lol: :lol: (Sorry WOWIEGURL no offense intended. :))

I am backup up another DVD and there are several VTS in there.

I have one question to ask of you as you are more knowledgable of such things.

Again as you know my source is PAL and RB-Opt reports that some of the VTS are Interlaced and some Progressive. It is a Disney movie im backing up so my little girl can watch the movie on her SAP and not spoil the original DVD. :D

I checked again in DGIndex and it says also some are Interlaced. This puzzles me as mainly PAL are progressive, could this be a highbred containing both Interlaced and Progressive?

When linking the VOB-ID's and then going to the CCE settings in RB-OPT, RP-Opt automatically selects a tick for the Progressive frames and uses
Zig-Zag scan order and for the Interlaced one's in uses Alternative order.

I just left these as they were and thought that RB-Opt knew better than me.

NB: Does putting a check mark in 'Double pass' in Prediction make for better quality and Q factor?

Thanks in advance Phil for any help you can give me, I will try my best to take in what advice you give me for future reference. :)

Lol. Yesterday I was also doing a Disney (black cauldron) :)
And that's right that some bonus are interlaced while the movie is progressive. Personnaly I didn't care and did all as progressive. I don't care to have artefacts in the bonus that I will watch very few time.

Hybrid refer to mixing int and prog into a single movie. This is not the case here if I understand well. You simply have some bonus that comes from TV (in my case, there are short cartoons unedited before on DVD).

Yes, that is normal. You always have to use Alternative for interlaced source. And that is why RB-OPT do not link automatically the IDs, but let you do this manually. You are supposed to preview each ID (with the preview button) and see if it has to be linked with the previous one or not.
In you case, you should not link a ID progressive with an other one interlaced.

That is why I didn't bother when I did my DVD yesterday ((too much VTS and IDs to check). I just focused on the quality of the main movie.

The opposite, the quality will be a little lower. Why ? Because RB-OPT predicts two times with a different sample and keep the upper Q. This is to be reduce the chance to be oversized at the end of the process.
I prefer to check it because I already had two discs oversized and it's boring to have to recode everything with a Q value one point upper just to save few megabytes.

Thanks for all your answers Phil as always much appreciated.

I was backing up Aladdin. Mind you I had a result I only paid £6 for the 2-DVD special edition in ASDA, I couldn't believe how cheap it was and brand new. :D

I liked all the VOB-ID's of the trailers as they were on the same VTS and all the VTS on the bonus material. I like you am not bothered with the quality of the trailers and bonus material, I only kept it in there because you know what kids are like they like to watch them b4 the movie starts. :) The movie had its own single VTS VOB-ID.

On this particular DVD the bonus material and the movie itself was Interlaced and the trailers at the beginning were Progressive.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I wasn't 100% sure on that subject. :)

I agree with you on the linking my word there was so many VOB-ID's & VTS to go through that is why I just linked all the in the same VTS together as im not to bothered about the trailers and bonus quality just the movie itself.

Again, now I learn another new thing thanks Phil. I will bear this in mind for future references. :)

I checked the Disney movie today and I was pleased with the quality of the movie, I used a lower max bitrate for the OPV predicton in RB-Opt and a slightly higher one for the Movie itself and I was happy with the quality and the kids didn't complain either. :lol:

On my Planet of the Apes series DVD, I got slight pixelation on the intro but I guess this is to be expected with 3hrs fullscreen and a Q value of 40.

Thanks for all your help and advice Phil, it has been really valuable to me and I have learned quite a bit also. :)

You think right. To me, 30 is the max Q I can accept from CCE.

I'm happy to had help you. DVD-RB is currently my favorite tool.

Yeah your right the quality is acceptal I suppose but maybe I can tweak some settings to make it better.

Yeah I agree DVD-RB is my current favourite tool also, the DVD muxing alone for me is awesome, a really great tool, it makes pretty good back ups with reasonalble to good quality. :D

Hi Phil, Sorry to ressurect this old topic but I need some advice please.

I have been using the latest version of DVD-RB Pro v1.00 RC1 and I have a few questions for you.

To my knowledge DVD-RB cannot do OPV prediction naitively without RB-Opt is this true? So im assuming it uses CCE multipass VBR.

I noticed that in the Options menu the submenu: Advanced (Experts) Options there are submenu's within this menu. These are;

Main Feature Matrix, Low Bitrate Matrix (<3Mbs), Very Low Bitrate Matrix (<2Mbs), Matrix for Extras. I noticed that the KVCD matrix (Thank the Lord) was in there and wondered if I should select this.

The other submenu's are GOP Size & DC Precision which both have Default (Auto) selected, should I enter a manual input here. For example 15 and 8 respectively?

On the Mode menu, on the Steal space from extras, 10% was automatically selected I unticked though as I usually use RB-Opt.

So basically should I stick with RB-Opt as I wanted to try out the one-click mode using the KVCD matrix for batch processing. However I fell that the 3 click mode with the Prepare phase to be my preffered option.

What are your opinions Phil?

Thanks in advance for your help. :)

I DLed it also but I never used it. I'm not even sure is the file it generates are compatible with RB-OPT (that is designed to be used with the free version)

You are wrong. There is an OPV mode in the CCE menu. I never used it but I think it is not very good mainly because you can't use OPV for film and 2 pass for bonuses (where OPV prediction is often way off, because the length is to short).

Great ! I have Pro 0.93.2 and the KVCD matrix is not there !
Yes you should use it : this way you wont have to set it manually in RB-OPT for each Vob-ID.
(I don't have this problem has I patched the KVCD matrix into the CCE binairy as default matrix :))

Yes it is. Same advice than for Matrix : if you enter the correct value there you wont have to put them in RB-OPT. IF RB-OPT IS COMPATIBLE

(note: I use DC=9 for DVD with CCE - and CCE can't don't GOP of 18).

You mean you use the sliders in RB-OPT ? I prefer allowing the maximuym space for the film directly into DVD-RB. I do not select any "steal" option but I check "half space and half size for bonus".

As told a little above, I'm quite sure RB-OPT won't be compatible. I mean, if you set the GOP and DC in DVD-RB, it will set these into the ecl. But will RB-OPT read the setted values ? Or does it consider that the values are the default (10 for DC for instance) and if you don't care about that and just "save", then you will use DC=10 insteed of 8 or 9 like you configured into DVD-RB. Do you understand what I mean ?

This is why I did not used Pro version for the moment.

And I would love to have a "2 click" mode : prepare then encode/rebuild :D

Thank you so much Phil for your patients in answering all my questions I have been really enlightened by your answers.

I think I may have to do a post over a D9 to ask if indeed RB-Opt is compatible with DVD-RB Pro as I have used it on the 0.93.2 Pro version and that worked fine for me, but the new DVD-RB looks so different and has had many changes so I will check to be sure.

It is a little disappointing to hear that the OPV prediction doesn't work so well on RB and that you can't have 2 pass for the bonus stuff, hopefully in the future this will change.

That is good news, then I shall select the KVCD notch matrix by default then. :D

No I don't use the sliders in RB-Opt, I usually set OPV for the movie and then I usually use VBR for the extras.

I might have to try the "half space and half size for bonus" option.

Yes I understand what you mean thanks for explaining the situation Phil. :)

I would love a 2 click mode also this would save a lot of wasted time.

I have to admit though I do love the look of the new rebuilder it looks really polished and has a nice interface. It certainly is a good tool for backing up.

I still used those filters you recommended and they work fine, I shall have to ask about the RB-Opt again and see if its compatible.

Thanks again Phil for all your answers, I have learned a lot from them. :)