Quantcast KVCD: Forced Film/29.97fps Template Issue - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
10-20-2002, 07:48 PM
2COOL 2COOL is offline
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Quote:
tonyk wrote:

Hi 2Cool -
I saw some other messages/discussions on using "Force FILM" or not in DVD2AVI, and I've always set it ON, even though I change the framerate in TMPGEnc to 29.97. I >think< that I had a problem with some ghosting and almost an interlaced-look if I left "force film" off and then encoded. It seemed to clear up when I set force film on.

Of course, as mentioned in the other discussion, any panning isn't smooth when the movie is encoded at 29.97 after using force film in DVD2AVI - for example, look at scrolling titles on one of your movies - with mine they seem to jump a little - but overall it seems to me that I get better encoding if I leave force film on, and at least we can watch the KVCDs on the Apex!

Cheers, TonyK.
Thanks for replying TonyK.

I was most likely the person who was going against the grain with doing it with forced film dv2 and upping to 29.97 in TMPGenc.

-------------------------------------------
This is for Kwag and Muaddib:

I know you guys have always said that if I'm going to use 29.97 in TMPGenc, then I GOTTA turn force film off. It suppose to be common sense. So I started from scratch again.

Originally. DVD2AVI says I've a Film 99% but no problem, turn force film off and save. View my d2v in TMPGenc, frame rate says 29.97 and video source type interlaced. Okay, now to fitCD. All I did in fitCD was open my d2v and saved avs. No file size predicting this time. Just default to VCD. Now here's a new problem for me. Everytime I open this avs, I get the blue screen of death. I can open another avs with no problem. I can preview d2v in TMPGenc but can't open this certain avs. That means I can't input decomb filters if I can't get it to a working avs. Another obstacle.

I tell myself , intiate plan B: Deinterlace using TMPGenc.

I can't get this to work to save my life. What am I doing wrong?

Point A is 29.97 d2v and Point B is encode in 29.97. I'm stuck in the middle with an interlaced movie and out of gas. Again, I was better off with turning on force film and worrying about audio syncing.

The best I've ever got with the forced film project was audio in-sync in beginning, gradually lags behind at the most a fraction of a second, then then re- syncing up around 3/4 of the movie. But hey quality was great! no jerking , no skipping and chaptered.

The only theory I see is that APEX players don't like 23.976 fps KVCDx templates. Forced film with 29.97 encoding might not agree with your player all the time but it works with APEX most of the time. The only reason APEX is popular because it's low budget and you play CDs,VCD,SVCD,DVD... so you're going to have alot of certain APEX model users and their all wanting K-V-C-D-x.
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  #2  
10-20-2002, 08:16 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi 2COOL,

The problem with APEX is that they officially stopped supporting VCD in all their models since around April this year. So new APEX models won't play VCD. Only SVCD and DVD.
And APEX models don't like 23.976fps, be it KVCD or plain VCD. Even though VCD standard do provide for 23.976fps and 29.97fps, APEX didn't follow the specs. So it's a shame, but APEX models ( and their sales ) are going down the drain. Problem is that not many people know this, and they go out and buy APEX, only to find out later about this problem.

-kwag
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  #3  
10-20-2002, 09:31 PM
2COOL 2COOL is offline
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Well it's a SAAAD day when you gotta face the music. You were right kwag! I went to check out Apex Digital Inc's ( a division of United Delta) website and looked up the good 'ol DVD player.

Here's the brief product description...

The Apex Digital AD-1100W

Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM Ready
Dolby Pro Logic
KODAK Picture CD Compatible
Mid Sized Chassis (Silver)
MP3
Plays DVD-SVCD-CD-CD/R-CD/RW

NO VCD

...and here's what I found in their FAQ

Q: Why won't my vcd's play?
A: Apex Digital does not support VCD. The added cost for licensing would raise the price per unit to you the consumer. This format is not popular and is seldom used in North America.

And that won't stop me from using KVCDx though. You know even if the player is still new...without VCD, I consider it damaged goods.
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10-20-2002, 10:05 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2COOL
Q: Why won't my vcd's play?
A: Apex Digital does not support VCD. The added cost for licensing would raise the price per unit to you the consumer. This format is not popular and is seldom used in North America.
quote: "This format is not popular and is seldom used in North America."

And that's exactly what I call "Shooting themselves in the foot". That's exactly what APEX did to theit product line, because there are thousands of people ( number growing ) that buy DVD players WITH VCD capability. So that rules out APEX models. I just wonder who made that BRILLIANT decision over at Apex
But then, almost every new Panasonic, Sony and JVC models reaching the market just now, plays just about every (XSK)VCD format.
It's a shame, because Apex was really a good player for the price.

-kwag
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  #5  
10-21-2002, 02:58 PM
vico1 vico1 is offline
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I just did a svcd of LOTR usin` the lbr templet and it turned out great.
I used "Forced Film" in DvD2AVI, converting to 29.97 within` TMPGEnc and it came out no prob.
I`ve got an Apex 1100w (1MB firmware upgraded) and use the lbr templet, with only slight mods exclusively now for svcd backups.

Thanks to you kwag, and everybody that helped make this truly inovative forum possible
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  #6  
10-21-2002, 09:30 PM
muaddib muaddib is offline
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Hey 2COOL,

As your DVD plays SVCD, you can try this out:

1-) Make a D2V project with force film ON.
2-) At FitCD create the AVS with SVCD (480x480) as destination and 2 blocks TV overscan.
3-) At TMPG load KVCDx3-MPEG2, change resolution to 480x480 and set the CQ_VBR ~20.

This way it gives me about 70+ minutes (23.97fps-wildscreen) of near DVD quality movie! This should fit almost all disney's cartoons in 1 CD.
If you need more minutes/cd or if your source is full-screen, then you can go for 352x480, or lower a bit more the CQ_VBR (15 or 12). Play a little with the CQ values (and the prediction script) to adjust quality/size to yours needs.

My DVD don't play KVCD at 23,976 (as yours), but it plays SKVCDs perfectly... and GREAT quality with this method!
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  #7  
10-21-2002, 09:42 PM
2COOL 2COOL is offline
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I'll give it a shot muaddib!
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