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  #1  
10-21-2002, 11:12 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Stay tuned for a lot of usefull info

-kwag
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  #2  
10-21-2002, 12:59 PM
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Hi there hope this new topic will help me
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  #3  
10-21-2002, 04:19 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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Hi Kwag,

Will this forum compete with Doom9 or is it here to provide answers
related to D2S and KVCD. Is this re-inventing the D2S wheel? Can
D2S be successfully converted to automate KVCD templates? Will
there be guides or discussions on how to convert D2S for KVCD use?
What happens to Headac3he (BeSweet is used instead)? What happens
with FitCD?

-black prince
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  #4  
10-21-2002, 07:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black prince
Hi Kwag,

This forum will this forum compete with Doom9 or is it here to provide answers
related to D2S and KVCD. Is this re-inventing the D2S wheel? Can
D2S be successfully converted to automate KVCD templates? Will
there be guides or discussions on how to convert D2S for KVCD use?
What happens to Headac3he (BeSweet is used instead)? What happens
with FitCD?

-black prince
Hi black prince,

It will never compete with doom9, because that's the home of DVD2SVCD . However, here, we'll have topics targeted at integration with KVCD parameters and who knows what other things we come up with. One thing is that I'm still working on testing the Candidate 2, and until I see some things working flawlessly, this forum won't take off smoothly.
For example: I've done a couple of movies now with the latest DVD2SVCD and I found a problem using the internal ripping routines. I did the movie "Tequila Sunrise" and after chapter 10 or 11, the rest of the movie was out of sync by a mile . And I mean like 10 or 15 seconds. I tested the mpeg file, and it was out of sync after about half way through the movie. So it was not an authoring problem. I repeated the same movie, but this time using vStrip option in DVD2SVCD, and now it came out perfect. The other thing is that I have not been able to get chapters in my .BIN image. No matter if i select "PBC Use Selections" or "PBC Use Playlist". Both using "DVD Chapters" check option. The other thing is file size prediction. The internal algorythm that DVD2SVCD uses is not as accurate as the method we use here. I get a difference of ~-20MB to ~-40MB smaller files than the predicted. With our method, I always get ~-2MB to ~-5MB. And that makes some difference in final quality.
The other thing is that to get blocks overscan, you must use FitCD, because DVD2SVCD doesn't provide for such adjustment. That's no problem, because I use FitCD and set the option on DVD2SVCD to edit the .avs script after DVD2AVI finishes, and I paste my own script. That would be great to have internally on DVD2SVCD. As far as subtitles, they rock . They look very good, and I like them better than the ones made with VobSub.
So I would really like to see DVD2SVCD integrate the file prediction method used here, because right now I'm getting smaller file size than the optimal, and for the LBR that's critical because every byte used to maximize space counts. Other than that, I see DVD2SVCD as the killer app and swiss army knife for DVD, AVI, DVB conversion. Let's hope some of those fine details get into the final release.

-kwag
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  #5  
10-21-2002, 09:05 PM
funil99 funil99 is offline
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This is my idea of this topic. We don't need to compete with the official site, but we can use many of us to make all this great program that is DVD2SVCD ( why not tell, is true !!!! ) works right in OUR aplication, that is, automatize the kvcd and all the variations templates.

Until now, I can confirm :

1 - Chapters don't work, but for sure in the next release will be correct.

2 - The size prediction routine is not perfect until now. I get all my films smaller than the old way.

3 - For many films that I have made, some really was out of sync. This is a bug that can be repaired if we rip with Vstrip.
Then why not use always the Vstrip integrated with DVD2SVCD ?

4 - For the subtitles, really THIS IS GREAT !!!!
And yesterday I make the Barry Manylow Show, that was in PAL, and whitout any difficult I got an NTSC KVCD with Subtitle that is perfect !!!

5 - Audio is very good too. This program make all audio from the original .ac3 ant the quality is very good.

Only for records, KVCD 120min per one CD was made to put 120 minutes IF the size was 16x9, and the audio is only 128K.
I used audio with 224K, and my film is 4x3; and even with this I put 95 minutes , with an great audio quality, with Dolby Prologic Surround that was very identical to the original DVD.

Well, from the problems above in items 1, 2 and 3, the only that can't have an alternated method is the item 2. This has to be made by DVD2SVCD. But the chapters can allways be made if you use VCDEASY in the .mpeg output and import the chapter made by Chapter-X-tractor.

I'm making many .INI with the settings for each template, and one MATRICES.INI with all matrices we use in our templates. If Kwag don't make them until now I'll post tomorrow.

Anywhay, people, we must recognize all the work that DVD2SVCD has made, and the support to integrate that Kwag has making too !

Kwag, go ahead, you are the correct people to talk to DVD2SVCD !

Oh, I'm forgeting :

Black Prince - Take it easy, felow !!!! Hehehe, you are very impacient

Try one subtitle film with DVD2SVCD and see by yourself the potential of this integration !

Funil99
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  #6  
10-22-2002, 10:00 AM
black prince black prince is offline
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@Hi Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Quote:
Hi black prince,

It will never compete with doom9, because that's the home of DVD2SVCD . However, here, we'll have topics targeted at integration with KVCD parameters and who knows what other things we come up with. One thing is that I'm still working on testing the Candidate 2, and until I see some things working flawlessly, this forum won't take off smoothly.
For example: I've done a couple of movies now with the latest DVD2SVCD and I found a problem using the internal ripping routines. I did the movie "Tequila Sunrise" and after chapter 10 or 11, the rest of the movie was out of sync by a mile . And I mean like 10 or 15 seconds. I tested the mpeg file, and it was out of sync after about half way through the movie. So it was not an authoring problem. I repeated the same movie, but this time using vStrip option in DVD2SVCD, and now it came out perfect. The other thing is that I have not been able to get chapters in my .BIN image. No matter if i select "PBC Use Selections" or "PBC Use Playlist". Both using "DVD Chapters" check option. The other thing is file size prediction. The internal algorythm that DVD2SVCD uses is not as accurate as the method we use here. I get a difference of ~-20MB to ~-40MB smaller files than the predicted. With our method, I always get ~-2MB to ~-5MB. And that makes some difference in final quality.
The other thing is that to get blocks overscan, you must use FitCD, because DVD2SVCD doesn't provide for such adjustment. That's no problem, because I use FitCD and set the option on DVD2SVCD to edit the .avs script after DVD2AVI finishes, and I paste my own script. That would be great to have internally on DVD2SVCD. As far as subtitles, they rock . They look very good, and I like them better than the ones made with VobSub.
So I would really like to see DVD2SVCD integrate the file prediction method used here, because right now I'm getting smaller file size than the optimal, and for the LBR that's critical because every byte used to maximize space counts. Other than that, I see DVD2SVCD as the killer app and swiss army knife for DVD, AVI, DVB conversion. Let's hope some of those fine details get into the final release.

-kwag
Originally, D2S was created to make a high quality manual process
easier. It took the best freeware programs and pulled them together
for those who were technically advanced in video backups. It has become
a catch all (swiss army knife) with add-in routines and due to this has
compromised in some cases quality for convience. I'm not talking purist,
but accepting good instead of excellent. In time problems like FitCD,
filesize prediction, bbMPEG, etc. could be solved. For now D2S will still
require lots more manual intervention to get even good results. Don't
get me wrong, this is great for those who want a quick movie waiting the
next morning, but don't complain if picture quality is blocky because the
filesize prediction could not done to get a higher CQ. Soon the movie table
suggested will be important to find out what settings were used to get
D2S to produce better quality gotten by the manual method. I only use
vstrip or D2S internal rip routines for chapter testing. These rip routines
gave me the same sync problems, so I use DVD Decrypter and then
use D2S for inputing ifo file.

@Hi funil99

Funil99 wrote:
Quote:
Black Prince - Take it easy, felow !!!! Hehehe, you are very impacient

Try one subtitle film with DVD2SVCD and see by yourself the potential of this integration !

Funil99
I used D2S quite a bit in the past creating SVCD's with CCE SP 2.5, so
I can wait for DVD2KVCD. I am presently trying to create an automated
process using parts of D2S and my own routines with "Autoit". It's
difficult since FitCD has no commandline functions, filesize prediction needs
to be a selected option, and bbMPEG is a problem. I am completely
satisfied with the manual and in no rush. There are refinements I make
that probably an automated won't be able to duplicate.

-black prince
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  #7  
10-22-2002, 10:58 PM
funil99 funil99 is offline
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Hi Black Prince -

I read in an reply that you are trying this Autoit. Hope you can get this working soon....

I'm using DVD2SVCD from the initial version too, with CCE, and exactly for the simplicity, not the best quality, but primarly because was a easy way to get subtitles.

But the actual strategy to optimize the parameters in TMPGEnc can be much more useful, to simulate an FitCD-alike.

Imagine if the program can determine the optimal parameters, then if has space left in disk, rise the max bitrate until the space was filled. Or maybe changing the CQ.

I dream with this facility...

Anyway, for the people that don't have all the technical skills ( like me ), this topic will be of great value.

Really, I'm tired of Avisynth, FitCD, etc... . Now, I'm asking for simplicity.

Where you get this Autoit ?

Funil99
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  #8  
10-23-2002, 12:19 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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Hi funil99,

Funil99 wrote:
Quote:
Hi Black Prince -

I read in an reply that you are trying this Autoit. Hope you can get this working soon....

I'm using DVD2SVCD from the initial version too, with CCE, and exactly for the simplicity, not the best quality, but primarly because was a easy way to get subtitles.

But the actual strategy to optimize the parameters in TMPGEnc can be much more useful, to simulate an FitCD-alike.

Imagine if the program can determine the optimal parameters, then if has space left in disk, rise the max bitrate until the space was filled. Or maybe changing the CQ.

I dream with this facility...

Anyway, for the people that don't have all the technical skills ( like me ), this topic will be of great value.

Really, I'm tired of Avisynth, FitCD, etc... . Now, I'm asking for simplicity.

Where you get this Autoit ?

Funil99
http://www.hiddensoft.com/Autoit/

Automating filling up the CD with the highest Video and Audio would be
fantastic. It would just keep recalculating until the size was met, all being
done while your sleeping. The first challenge is to get FitCD incorporated
in the automated process. DVD2AVI, Tmpgenc, BeSweet are easy because
they can be excuted with line commands. My automated process starts with
DVD Decrypter sending vob's to a folder I have determined, then
the vob's are renamed to a file convention so that DVD2AVI sees the same
file name and executes with Force Film on. Have'nt figured out how D2S
decides whether to use force film or telecide. Then the save file from
DVD2AVI created .d2v and .ac3. BeSweet creates the audio (Headac3he
has no line commands, except CLI) which does'nt have dual channel. The
.mp2 file is done. Then the video process starts with avs script editing and
a Tmpgenc project (.ptr) file for KVCDx3 or KVCD-LBR, ect. which was
created before hand and used as a line command to Tmpgenc. I have
stopped at bbMPEG due to problems with its default.ini file override. It
just won't seem to use mine. I think a hybrid automation process of
D2S and my own "Autoit" is getting there, but I am shooting for quality
first and ease last.

-black prince
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  #9  
10-23-2002, 02:06 PM
GFR GFR is offline
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Quote:
I used D2S quite a bit in the past creating SVCD's with CCE SP 2.5, so
I can wait for DVD2KVCD. I am presently trying to create an automated
process using parts of D2S and my own routines with "Autoit". It's
difficult since FitCD has no commandline functions, filesize prediction needs
to be a selected option, and bbMPEG is a problem. I am completely
satisfied with the manual and in no rush. There are refinements I make
that probably an automated won't be able to duplicate.

-black prince
Doesnt FitCD come with source code (Delphi, I think)? Someone (I ?) could compile a "command line version" of it.
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  #10  
10-23-2002, 08:29 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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Hi GFR,

GFR wrote:
Quote:
Doesnt FitCD come with source code (Delphi, I think)? Someone (I ?) could compile a "command line version" of it.
That would be nice. I think I've found a way via avs script:

# ------ KVCD-LBR ------
#
loadplugin("d:\Temp\mpeg2dec.dll")
#Bob() # <--- de-interlace
LanczosResize(352,240) # <--- use in place Bicubic or Bilinear resize
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(8,8,8,
# End Script

Here's a sample script for LBR where the only 2 lines might need
changing are Bob() and AddBorders. The rest can stay the same.
I've figured out how to automate bbMPEG. I going to try SmartRipper
instead of DVD Decrypter, since SR can create a vob file list that
can be used by DVD2AVI. I want to create a prompt dialog box
requesting which KVCD template you want to use and do branching
in the "Autoit" file to load a Tmpgenc project file for that template. This
automating will probably take a week, due to testing. If all goes well
I may ask Kwag if I can upload to him for testing by others for
modifications to fit their needs. I have alot of divx (avi) files I want
to convert to LBR. So my first will focus on this type of conversion.
For the curious, here's a sample of "Autoit" for bbMPEG:

; ------------------------------- BBMPEG --------------------------------
;
SetEnv,BB,E:\\DVD Backup\\w - bbMPEG\\avi2mpg2.exe
;
Run, %BB% ; loaction of bbMPEG from SetEnv above
WinWaitActive, AVI2MPG2
Send, l
Sleep, 3000
Send, {ESC}
Send, e
WinWaitActive, bbMPEG
Send, {TAB}
Send, s
WinWaitActive, MPEG
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB} {TAB}
Send, {RIGHT}{TAB}{TAB}{ENTER}
WinWaitActive, bbMPEG
Send, D:\\Temp\\temp.mpg ; output mpg file
Send, {ENTER}
WinWaitActive, MPEG
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{ENTER}
WinWaitActive, bbMPEG
Send, D:\\Temp\\oceans_eleven.m1v ; video input file
Send, {ENTER}
WinWaitActive, MPEG
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{ENTER}
WinWaitActive, bbMPEG
Send, D:\\Temp\\oceans_eleven.mp2 ; audio input file
Send, {ENTER}
WinWaitActive, MPEG
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB} {TAB}{TAB}{UP}
Send, {TAB}{RIGHT}
Send, b
Send, f
Send, 0
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}
Send, {TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{TAB}{LEFT}{UP}
Send, {TAB}
Send, !e
Send, 9999999
Send, !s
Send, {DELETE}
Send, 1
Send, !z
Send, {DELETE}
Send, 800 ; file size to split by
Send, {ENTER}
Send, t
SetTitleMatchMode, 2
WinWaitActive, bbMPEG, &Ok
Send, {ESC}
WinClose, AVI2MPG2

-black prince
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  #11  
10-24-2002, 06:22 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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FitCD remembers the last settings you used, so this info must be stored in a .ini file or in the Register. This makes inputing data automatically posssible without any modification.

For fully automation we need a way to make it automatically save the script with a predefined file name and then close itself, so that the rest of the proccess can go on.
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  #12  
10-24-2002, 12:50 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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Hi GFR,

Quote:
# ------ KVCD-LBR ------
#
loadplugin("d:\Temp\mpeg2dec.dll")
#Bob() # <--- de-interlace
LanczosResize(352,240) # <--- use in place Bicubic or Bilinear resize
TemporalSmoother(2,2)
AddBorders(8,8,8,
# End Script
The avs script above is a sample of LBR that would work for all videos except
when de-interlace is needed Bob() and AddBorders for tv overscan and aspect ratio.
Other can scripts can be used in automation without actually calling
FitCD and still work. The same script would work for KVCDx3 if
you change LancsozResize(528,480) and AddBorders(16,16,16,16).
To keep the correct aspect ratio for AddBorders would have to be determined
by FitCD. FitCD is not friendly to automate. It's a problem I am still
working on. My goal is to come as close as possible to the manual
process. The worst problem I have is file size prediction.
I envision a loop routine using Kwag formula when reaching estimated
file size of say 650 for m1v, then capturing the CQ for final encode.
This should leave room for at least 128khz audio from Headac3he.

-black prince
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  #13  
11-15-2002, 10:35 PM
Freetza Freetza is offline
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Hey Kwag, I have a question for ya. I'm using dvd2svcd, and when I use vstrip to rip the dvd's, it's only ripping up to 4 vob's. I tried with two different movies and there isplenty of HD space. Any ideas of what it could be? Thanks for the help!
Mike
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