Quantcast KDVD: Always Convert to 23.976 and then, Pulldown - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-24-2006, 10:17 PM
sparskter sparskter is offline
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http://home.arcor.de/the.incredible/pulldown.html


So If I have a 25,0000 or 29,9700 or 60,0000 FPS movie should I always use:
changeFPS(23.976)
or
AssumeFPS(23.976)

Or it is a very bad idea ? If it is a good idea are there better ways than these commands above ?

ps: I think there will be dropped frames this way...
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  #2  
02-25-2006, 12:38 AM
fabrice fabrice is offline
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Hi,

It depends on what you standalone can do: mine for example, even if I am in a PAL zone, can read NTSC format, so I almost never convert the movies from NTSC to PAL (I don't have a lot, but zone 1 DVD are always a headache).

And the conversion may vary, according to the 'gap' you have: from 25 to 23.976, the jump is not high so you can slow the movie a bit (assumefps). But converting from 29,976 to 25 is another story.

The 2 command you mentions can 'convert' from one framerate to another, but in different ways: assumefps speeds up or slows the movies, to keep the frame number but not the duration, and convertfps just keep the duration by dropping or duplicating frames.

Salu2
Fabrice
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  #3  
02-25-2006, 10:01 AM
sparskter sparskter is offline
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@fabrice
thanks

The questions is, you can always pulldown:
23.976 -> 25 (PAL)
23.976 -> 29.970 (NTSC)

that is what incredible is saying on his site

The problem is that a I have a lot of 60.0000 fps video of games (http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/) and encoding every @60.0000 fps will take longer than encoding @23.976

Correct me if need so

best regards \o\
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  #4  
02-25-2006, 04:04 PM
sparskter sparskter is offline
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Code:
CONVERTTOYUY2()
CONVERTFPS(23.976)
CONVERTTOYV12()
I am doing some tests. Currently, I am trying this script above
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  #5  
02-26-2006, 05:53 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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No need to do this double conversion.

The ChangeFPS can be done at the very end of the script, that means that you can have juste a ConvertToYUY2() then the ChangeFPS() as last lines.
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  #6  
02-27-2006, 01:41 AM
fabrice fabrice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparskter
The questions is, you can always pulldown:
23.976 -> 25 (PAL)
23.976 -> 29.970 (NTSC)

that is what incredible is saying on his site
I've never used the pulldown, so I'm not sure I should answer!
If I remember correctly, the pulldown is just a flag that tell the SAP to decode the stream with another framerate. In this case, the effect is the same as convertfps.
Can someone confirm that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparskter
The problem is that a I have a lot of 60.0000 fps video of games (http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/) and encoding every @60.0000 fps will take longer than encoding @23.976
Correct framerates are 23,976, 25 and 29,97, so 60 would give you an error!

CU,
Fabrice
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  #7  
02-27-2006, 02:20 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabrice
If I remember correctly, the pulldown is just a flag that tell the SAP to decode the stream with another framerate. In this case, the effect is the same as convertfps.
Can someone confirm that?
I can

-kwag
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  #8  
02-27-2006, 06:22 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Nope

Convertfps does MIX fields to result in a smooth playback so "blendings" will be the result.

What your SAP does when recognising a pulldown flag is this (in avisynth words):

AVISource("24fpsFilm.avi")
SelectEvery(2,0,0,0,1,1).SeparateFields().SelectEv ery(4,1,2).Weave()


So theres no field blending but reordering! Thats why you can InVerseTeleCine this type of stream again without resulting in blendings.

If you have 23.976, then set a pulldown in TmpgEnc before encoding or ad a Pulldown via Pulldown.exe after the encoding in for example CCE etc.

You also can use Dgrafts Pulldown to do a 23.976 to 25 fps pulldown.
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  #9  
02-27-2006, 06:55 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You also can use Dgrafts Pulldown to do a 23.976 to 25 fps pulldown.
BTW I tried this once (to do 23.976 -> 29.970), and it does not work. The MPEG is still analysed as 23.976 by all application I use to open it (DGIndex and DVDLab). Is taht normal ?
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  #10  
02-27-2006, 08:24 AM
sparskter sparskter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparskter
So If I have a 25,0000 or 29,9700 or 60,0000 FPS movie should I always use:
changeFPS(23.976)
or
AssumeFPS(23.976)

Or it is a very bad idea ? If it is a good idea are there better ways than these commands above ?
Good or Bad ? In other words.. if it is 29.970 I must encode @29.970

Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
So theres no field blending but reordering! Thats why you can InVerseTeleCine this type of stream again without resulting in blendings.
You mean this? :
Code:
SeparateFields
SelectOdd
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  #11  
02-27-2006, 10:11 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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If you have a progressive source (i.e. you can either use force film or IVTC to get the progressive frames out of the 29.97fps clip), you encode it as progressive at 23.976fps and do the pulldown from 23.976 to 29.97fps.

If you have an interlaced source, you encode as interlaced at 29.97fps.

With game videos it's different. You might get away with SelectEven or SelectOdd and then slowing down to 29.97fps.
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  #12  
02-28-2006, 01:34 AM
sparskter sparskter is offline
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Have any1 tested FDecimate() ?
http://neuron2.net/fdecimate/fdecimate.html
Code:
LOADPLUGIN("D:\filters\fdecimate101\FDecimate.dll")
AviSource("D:\video\video.avi")
RESAMPLEAUDIO(48000)
CONVERTAUDIOTO16BIT
FDECIMATE()
Quote:
FDecimate() is an advance over the internal filter ChangeFPS() because it can preferentially deliver unique frames, avoiding duplicates where possible.
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  #13  
02-28-2006, 09:05 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You also can use Dgrafts Pulldown to do a 23.976 to 25 fps pulldown.
BTW I tried this once (to do 23.976 -> 29.970), and it does not work. The MPEG is still analysed as 23.976 by all application I use to open it (DGIndex and DVDLab). Is taht normal ?
Imho the mpeg2 itself is still 23.976 and so it will be recognised. Do a test and play it back on your SAP if it works then only the SAP will recognise the flag.

I remember on a MAC and its videoapps pulldowned NTSC Films will still be recognised as 23.976 by the common softwares used.
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  #14  
02-28-2006, 09:28 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You also can use Dgrafts Pulldown to do a 23.976 to 25 fps pulldown.
BTW I tried this once (to do 23.976 -> 29.970), and it does not work. The MPEG is still analysed as 23.976 by all application I use to open it (DGIndex and DVDLab). Is taht normal ?
Imho the mpeg2 itself is still 23.976 and so it will be recognised. Do a test and play it back on your SAP if it works then only the SAP will recognise the flag.
The problems is that as DVDLab does not recognize it, I can't author my DVD ! Finally I used DoPulldown "et voilą".
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  #15  
02-28-2006, 04:52 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Ive to admit that till now I never used DGpulldown. The 23.976's I did encode where flagged using pulldown.exe (after CCE'ing) or internally switched in TmpGenc. And as my SAP plays them back fawlessly I never needed to convert 23.976's to PAL.

EDIT: Did you just DgPulldown'ed your 23.976 still NTSC px resolution movies or did you also resize them to PAL specs?
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  #16  
02-28-2006, 05:13 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Actually, I saw after having encoded 8 NTSC video in 352x480 with CCE that I had forgotted to set the pulldown in the ecl. Logically there were all refused by DVDLab. Then I tried to use DGPulldown to that flag with no success.
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