Quantcast Codecs: Libavcodec Progress Thread - Page 5 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #81  
03-26-2006, 05:36 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danpos
Regard on the second screenshot, we can se that peak/average bitrate are so far away the values showed by BV from Lab (yeah, this is crazy! Shocked ). We can see that max bitrate was respected.
You should take into account testing various sources cause as you can see I got clear spikes up to 9900 where 9000 was set as maximum.
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  #82  
03-26-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
For me this is enought. This lavcodec joke is definitely over me. Bye.
DITTO

-kwag
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  #83  
03-26-2006, 06:26 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Same here.
No need to post my findings since they are already documented from other's posts here.
And Sagittaire, if you take a look at the old MEncoder part of the forum you'll notice how Kwag, Incredible,myself and many others were all the biggest supporters of MEncoder.
I think it's a wonderful player (MPlayer) and it's a fine encoder for non-MPEG1/2.
Cheers
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  #84  
03-26-2006, 08:28 PM
danpos danpos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You should take into account testing various sources cause as you can see I got clear spikes up to 9900 where 9000 was set as maximum.
Of course I'm following this thread and I solved to do some tests for fun and knowledge purposes only. I never used Mencoder before and I was interested to test Sagittaire's statements out and for my few tests I could to verify that following him instructions I got a MPEG2 streams in compliance with DVD specs.

But, the tests are insufficient? Yep, of course. Should I to do several tests with it? Yep, but when I get some free time.

I'm not questioning yours results as I know that you're a expert and very serious guy (and I did see yours results). I'm just showing my experience with a few tests that I did.

BTW, take an eye in the bitrate graph below:



You can see the average/peak bitrate reported by BV from Lab and the histogram/continuous distribution approached. In the histogram you can see clearly some spikes into it, right? OK, I've to say that this bitrate spike is from a piece of ORIGINAL VOB - Harry Potter II - which I cut off using Kutter .

Other bitrate graphs:

Original VOB (Harry Potter II - R4)


Encoded with CCE (OPV - Q = 1)


I put these graphs here because I did stay surprise with them. JFYI.

Regards,
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  #85  
03-26-2006, 09:07 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Danilo ,
This is some interesting findings you did .
I don't look at DVDLab's BV window, even because I do most of my authoring with Muxman.
But I'll take a look at it one of these days.
BTW, does the real BitRate Viewer tool show similar results with those Harry Potter movies?
Nice seeing you around .
Cheers

PS: Oh, and send my best to Gino

PS2: Here's some late night findings with the original BitRate Viewer 1.5 and some original VOBs.
The movies were Batman Begins and Catwoman.
None of them broke the 9.000Kbit/s roof.
Here's goes some pictures

Batman Begins - Zone 2 - PAL



Catwoman - Zone 2 - PAL



Tomorrow I'll try to post some HCEnc 0.17 and some MEncoder encoded streams and post the results.
Cheers
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  #86  
03-26-2006, 10:40 PM
danpos danpos is offline
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@rds_correia

Hi, mate!! I'm always around here, but generally I just read the threads because of the experts here "dão conta do recado"!

Yep, I did stay puzzled with these 'findings' so I did solve to post them. They're really strange but maybe my DVD-Lab version be a bit old and so not up-to-date (I mean the BV tool from it).

BTW, even BV from TECO doesn't show the correct average bitrate from a videostream (even that without pulldown flags cos I did see that pulldown ones 'increase' - artificially - the bitrate of videostream).

I just burned a CDRW right now (I did a miniDVD with Nero Express because of I haven't DVDRW right now - and I always forget to buy it, oh boy! ) and watched in my 29" TV set and the quality is awesome for a 1790 Kbits/s encoding (not used filters, not used post-processing from DGMPEGDec, just decoding/encoding ). As the max bitrate was lower than 6000 Kbits/s I hadn't any stuttering or other playback issue (again, in this case the max bitrate was respected, even that 'instant bitrate' and the 'peak bitrate from a continuous distribution' as well).

Cheers,
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  #87  
03-27-2006, 04:28 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Beside spikes etc. ... it was clearly reported (not only here) that even if the bitrates are in the DVD compilant range, that is NO proof that this result is full DVD compilant. Many users reported problems (specially on Pioneer devices) that no proper playback of their "DVD compilant range looking" result is given.
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  #88  
03-27-2006, 11:28 AM
Sagittaire Sagittaire is offline
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Quote:
And now this is Bitrate viewver that is buggy and of course not this wonderfull, marvelous, amazing fully 1000% percent best MPEG12345678 encoder ever.
Well it's not my fault if Bitrate Viewer can't analyse correctly the MPEG2 stream. FFDShow or Impressionist MPEG2 analyser can make correct quantizer analysis ...

And yes actually Libavcodec use the best codec for metric ...
MPEG2 : the best and by far
MPEG4 ASP : actually little better than XviD or DivX
MPEG4 AVC : x264 is actually the best absolute video codec in the world
SNOW : very promising open source codec/norme ... done actually same result than MPEG4 ASP


Quote:
Do you think these arguments just are enough to do encode in a non-linear mode? Even if they do "sound" so? Gimme a clear documentation if this from somewhere - like the mencoder docu.
p_mask=<0.0−1.0> (also see vi_qfactor)
Reduces the quality of inter blocks. This is equivalent to increasing the quality of intra blocks, because the same average bitrate will be distributed by the rate controller to the whole video sequence (default: 0.0 (disabled)). p_mask=1.0 doubles the bits allocated to each intra block.

naq
Normalize adaptive quantization (experimental). When using adaptive quantization (*_mask), the average per-MB quantizer may no longer match the requested frame-level quantizer. Naq will attempt to adjust the per-MB quantizers to maintain the proper average.

qprd (mbd=2 only)
Rate distorted optimal quantization parameter (QP) for the given lambda of each macroblock.

Mencoder encoding




Quote:
Beside spikes etc. ... it was clearly reported (not only here) that even if the bitrates are in the DVD compilant range, that is NO proof that this result is full DVD compilant. Many users reported problems (specially on Pioneer devices) that no proper playback of their "DVD compilant range looking" result is given.
I will make annonce on http://forum.surdvd.com/ for test my mencoder stream for all possible Pionner SAP ... but I know already the answer ...
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  #89  
03-28-2006, 06:38 AM
danpos danpos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire
I will try to update profil:
- VCD, SVCD, DVD profil
- PAL, NTSC profil
- progressive, telecine, interlaced profil
- Fast, normal, high and insame profil
Any planning to release these profiles?

TIA,
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  #90  
03-28-2006, 08:48 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Sagittaire, regarding to the "float" Quantizer info in your pic samples:
Which FFdshow Version are you using?
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  #91  
03-28-2006, 04:58 PM
Sagittaire Sagittaire is offline
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Quote:
Sagittaire, regarding to the "float" Quantizer info in your pic samples:
Which FFdshow Version are you using?
Unfortunaly I format actually my system (Motherboard out ... snif) but ffdshow is very recent version.

Anyway, linear or no linear, adaptative or not adaptative is not important. Linear quantisation is perhaps not same function that adaptative quantisation. I don't know if mencoder can or can't use no linear quantisation. I don't know if Bitrate Viewer / FFDShow show real quantizer. I can just say that Bitrate Viewer and FFDShow done different result ...

Real question is compliant or not compliant. I will test my mencoder stream for all possible Pionner SAP and post result here.

PS: do you know the exact pionner model for mencoder problem ... ???
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  #92  
03-28-2006, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
PS: do you know the exact pionner model for mencoder problem ... ???
DV-444 and DVR-220 are the most common SAP that have problems with bitrate but don't know how they deal specifically with mencoder. But you already been in a thread talking about libavcodec, bitrate control and spikes. I let you refresh your memories :
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=699882
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  #93  
03-28-2006, 07:34 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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And, BTW what a nice set of posts we can read further in that D9 thread .
Very...educational .
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  #94  
03-28-2006, 07:36 PM
Sagittaire Sagittaire is offline
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Quote:
DV-444 and DVR-220 are the most common SAP that have problems
I will test that with my "mencoder low bitrate profil" and I post result here.
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  #95  
03-29-2006, 02:20 AM
Sagittaire Sagittaire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
And, BTW what a nice set of posts we can read further in that D9 thread .
Very...educational .
yes hank315 (as always) done good solution. but hank315 is MPEG2 dev ... it's really easy for him.

Code:
quantiser	                linear		non-linear
0		(forbidden)
1		2		1
2		4		2
3		6		3
4		8		4
5		10		5
6		12		6
7		14		7
8		16		8
9		18		10
10		20		12
11		22		14
12		24		16
13		26		18
14		28		20
15		30		22
16		32		24
17		34		28
18		36		32
19		38		36
20		40		40
21		42		44
22		44		48
23		46		52
24		48		56
25		50		64
26		52		72
27		54		80
28		56		88
29		58		96
30		60		104
31		62		112
1) Adaptative quantisation and Linear quantisation are simply not same function. Libavcodec use Linear quant and use AQ. HC, TMPGEnc use non linear quant and use AQ. Inc and me not speack simply about the same function ...

2) FFDShow OSD seem show linear/non linear quantisation. I don't know what exactly BV show (real overall quantizer or overall linear/ no linear quant ???)


but hank315 say too
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=98633&page=4

Quote:
Originally Posted by hank315
I just discovered it by accident because I introduced the same bug with HC015 (will be solved in HC016)
It can cause severe blocking on some (very strict) HW players like Pioneer, Philips and Koss.
It's about motion vector length which is restricted for Main level.
In fact it was mean who pointed me to this very well hidden MV restriction.
The vertical motion vectors should be limited so they can be 'folded' in f_codes <= 5.
In about 15% of the frames Mencoder also uses values of 6 and 7 for f_code[0][1] and f_code[1][1].
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagittaire
motion vector range ... perhabs. I think that for MPEG2 compliant stream max vector must be 128 ... ???

Update with new mencoder sample
me_range=128 in mencoder CLI
Quote:
Originally Posted by hank315
Both clips seem OK now.
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  #96  
03-29-2006, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
And, BTW what a nice set of posts we can read further in that D9 thread .
Very...educational .
Little off-topic : is the Nic of Doom9 the person who created the Nic's Xvid ?
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  #97  
03-29-2006, 10:05 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Yes.
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  #98  
03-29-2006, 02:13 PM
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Thanks.

Off-topic ended.
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  #99  
03-29-2006, 03:37 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Small remark: Nic is not the creator of XviD.
XviD has it's own development team.
That means that Nic simply compiles the sources found in XviD.org .
I used the word simply not meaning that it is a simple task.
But it's definitly a simpler task compared with the development team.

@Sagittaire,
Actually I was not speaking of Hank315 when I said that there were interesting posts further on that D9 thread.
Instead I was refering to john3volta's and to kwag's posts vs Nic's and DragonGodz's posts.
I'd say that john3voltas and kwag had a point there.
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  #100  
04-06-2006, 02:30 PM
Sagittaire Sagittaire is offline
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Well first result for Pionner:

- Pioneer DV-380 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-444 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-454 : Seem OK
- Pioneer DV-575 : Seem OK

I can't find tester for DVR-220 ...
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