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-   -   KVCD not made with the official method? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/14457-kvcd-official-method.html)

rainer 12-31-2006 06:37 AM

KVCD not made with the official method?
 
and not 120min either.. ;)

tried something different this time and got quite nice results.

movie: DOA - Dead or Alive
length: 83min

target: KVCDx3 mpeg-1 PAL 528x576
audio: 128kbit/stereo
edit: i also added permanent subtitles with ffdshow but they are not visible in that clip.

I encoded this with 2-pass VBR option (TMPGenc) because I haven't had success with any CQ prediction programs lately.
I also used ffdshow to enhance the picture a little.

Download 2min clip here

I'm pretty surprised how good quality it is.

gamma 12-31-2006 07:18 AM

That has me figuring some time now. When you set a 2-pass, the encoding
program calculates a average bitrate to fill the available space.
So, you're encoding targeted at a specific filesize, the avg bitrate will be calculated.
When using CQ, you're encoding at a minimum contant quality, "ignoring" the filesize.

What wonders me: is the 2-pass VBR at lets say 1000kbps average bitrate, the same in quality as a CQ encoding with avg rate of 1000kbps?
My common sense says: yes, because you're using the same average bitrate.

Dialhot 12-31-2006 07:20 AM

Re: KVCD made not "by-the-book"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rainer
I'm pretty surprised how good quality it is.

Excuse me ??? This clip is awfull 8O

Pixelated all the long - even on the scenes not under the rain - , hardcoded combo artefacts due to bad deinterlacing...

Have you ever see a KVCD correctly encoded :?:

http://www.kvcd.net/downloads/tomb.raider.sample.mpg
http://www.kvcd.net/downloads/red-pl...y-cq63.031.mpg
http://www.kvcd.net/downloads/NewScript.m1v.cut.40.mpg

These scenes are easier to encode than the one you show but trust me, your KVCD should/could look like them.

Dialhot 12-31-2006 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamma
What wonders me: is the 2-pass VBR at lets say 1000kbps average bitrate, the same in quality as a CQ encoding with avg rate of 1000kbps?
My common sense says: yes, because you're using the same average bitrate.

And practical experience says that this is not true. The rate control is unfortunately not good enought to reach the same quality in 2-pass than in CQ mode. It would need more pass to adjust the bits repartition. Only CCE allows to encode in more than 2-pass, and with 1 or 2 more, then yes : the quality reached in 3 (or 4) passes is the same than in 1-pass Q mode... in 3 or 4 more time !

With tmpgenc I often had better quality in CQ mode using only 90% of the disc due to a bad prediction than in 2-pass mode filling the whole 800 MB available.

Note: did you look at Rainer's sampler before to answer what you said ? ;)

rds_correia 12-31-2006 08:09 AM

Arrgh!!
I can't watch this clip!
Two gorgeous women fighting without oil in their skin?
That's awful :lol:.
Kiddin'!
No, I mean, the picture looks horrible.
I don't know the final bitrate found by tmpgenc but this is a really bad encode.
I can't remember encoding such a bad clip.
Maybe...in 2000 or 2001?
You gotta tell us what you did because either something is wrong in the encoder (bug or something) or you crewed up somewhere in the rest of the process and we might be of help.
Cheers

Dialhot 12-31-2006 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds_correia
You gotta tell us what you did

The matter is that we are talking about VCD there, so max bitrate is limited to 2300 and that is few for rain scenes. Nevertheless, I'm suspecting a crappy source (Divx...) especially for the combo artefacts everywhere.

rainer 12-31-2006 09:16 AM

well, the quality is good enough for me and i think that's the thing that counts the most.

Dialhot 12-31-2006 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainer
well, the quality is good enough for me and i think that's the thing that counts the most.

Of course ! But our duty is to tell you that this is several light years from the quality you can expect :). It 's a little like enjoying stereo sound when 5.1 DTS can be used.

gamma 01-03-2007 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
And practical experience says that this is not true. The rate control is unfortunately not good enought to reach the same quality in 2-pass than in CQ mode. It would need more pass to adjust the bits repartition. Only CCE allows to encode in more than 2-pass, and with 1 or 2 more, then yes : the quality reached in 3 (or 4) passes is the same than in 1-pass Q mode... in 3 or 4 more time !

With tmpgenc I often had better quality in CQ mode using only 90% of the disc due to a bad prediction than in 2-pass mode filling the whole 800 MB available.

Ah, I understand, thanks :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dialhot
Note: did you look at Rainer's sampler before to answer what you said ? ;)

Nope, I didn't....
I've just watched it, man o man......I totally get your point!

supermule 01-04-2007 06:26 AM

btw, which movie is this ???

gamma 01-04-2007 06:52 AM

Re: KVCD made not "by-the-book"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rainer
and not 120min either.. ;)

tried something different this time and got quite nice results.

movie: DOA - Dead or Alive
length: 83min



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