Quantcast KDVD: Two Documentaries on one DVD? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
07-05-2008, 10:57 AM
jason jason is offline
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Hi,

I haven't been doing kstuff for a while, been changing my computer and I feel rusted, can you help me ?

I have two dvd-documentaries that I'd like to put on one dvd.
Some details :
- the dvds are 4/3 (720x576)
- the first one is interlaced (obvious combing effect), I think the second one is too, but it's less obvious because there's almost no movements.
- for the sound, the first dvd is LPCM, 48 khz, 16bits, 2 ch; the second one is LPCM, 48khz, 16bits, 1ch (!).

For both of theses dvd, there's no sound on my standalone dvd player (thomson), but it works on my PC.

So far, I have ripped the two dvd and made a d2v project + demux the sound with dgmpgdec150.

- Do I need to change the wav to ac3 with besweet ?
- what are the settings for fitcd ? (anamorphic or not, IUT-br ticked or not ?)
- what are the settings for HCEncoder ?
- what script may I use ?

Thank you.

- Do I need to change
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  #2  
07-09-2008, 10:25 AM
jason jason is offline
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Is everybody at the beach ?

Well, it summertime, I can wait.
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  #3  
07-09-2008, 12:05 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Weird I did not see your message yesterday when I came

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
- the dvds are 4/3 (720x576)
- the first one is interlaced (obvious combing effect), I think the second one is too, but it's less obvious because there's almost no movements.
(TV ?) documentary are almost always interlaced (true interlacing).

Quote:
- Do I need to change the wav to ac3 with besweet ?
yes. or mp2. These are the only two formats for audio on a DVD.

Quote:
- what are the settings for fitcd ? (anamorphic or not, IUT-br ticked or not ?)
you say that they are 4:3 so not anamorphic. IUT ticked.

Quote:
- what are the settings for HCEncoder ?
Use HCMatic

Quote:
- what script may I use ?
Read there :
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13768
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  #4  
07-09-2008, 01:07 PM
jason jason is offline
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Thanks.

It's not "tv documentary", actually. They were given at differents exhibition. Both of them are burnt dvd, not pressed dvd.

Quote:
Use HCMatic
Yes, for evaluating the size, I'll do. But what the settings like "dc prec", "smp"; "scene changes"; "max bitrate"...
I have forgotten a little all theses settings.
In HC 0.23, there are 3 settings menu (settings 1, settings 2, settings 3), I don't even remember if "constant quantization" was checked or not, for instance.


Thanks for the interlacing guide.
May I use this script of yours with the interlacing filters ?

Code:
DGDecode_Mpeg2Source("Path/Filename.d2v",cpu=4,idct=7) 
ColorMatrix(d2v="Path/Filename.d2v") 

#TDeint(tryweave=true) 

LanczosResize(...)

LimitedSharpenFaster() 
LRemoveDust_YV12(17,1) 

#MergeLuma(Blur(0.2)) # pour gagner de la compressibilité
#MergeChroma(Blur(1)) # sinon, non

AddBorders(...)
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  #5  
07-09-2008, 02:13 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
Yes, for evaluating the size, I'll do. But what the settings like "dc prec", "smp"; "scene changes"; "max bitrate"...
HCMatic takes care of all settings except gop length (use 12 for PAL standard, 24 is you want more compression but your DVD won't be in the standards) and max bitrate (you can let 9800 as HCEnc will reduce the max if needed).

Code:
DGDecode_Mpeg2Source("Path/Filename.d2v",cpu=4,idct=7) 
ColorMatrix(d2v="Path/Filename.d2v") 

#TDeint(tryweave=true) 

LanczosResize(...)

LimitedSharpenFaster() 
LRemoveDust_YV12(17,1) 

#MergeLuma(Blur(0.2)) # pour gagner de la compressibilité
#MergeChroma(Blur(1)) # sinon, non

AddBorders(...)
[/quote]
Actually you can even use the script like that, just remove the # in front of TDeint. That line de-interlace the source pretty well, even if it introduce some slight blending.

Note: in HCMatic don't check "interlaced' as the source is progressive after "TDeint".
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  #6  
07-10-2008, 11:37 AM
jason jason is offline
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Thanks,

I've been doing some quick tests.

At the end, HCMATIC said something like "can't determine accurately", is it normal ?

The two sample.ini have set the cq-maxbitrate to 5.

Can I set the GOP to 15 instead of 12 ?
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  #7  
07-10-2008, 02:18 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
Can I set the GOP to 15 instead of 12 ?
15 is normally max for NTSC, not PAL. But I don't think your player will refuse to read that.

Concerning your error, I'm very surprised that you can have something about 5 ! I never encode above 4 as the result is too bad over that value. Better to stay arround 3. Yous hould rework you script !

Nevertheless the error you have means that the ideal Q value is above the Qmax (or under the Qmin) that you set in HCMatic. The only way to solve that is to raise the QMax (or lower QMin). But as said above, 5 is already too bad !
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  #8  
07-10-2008, 02:35 PM
jason jason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
Can I set the GOP to 15 instead of 12 ?
15 is normally max for NTSC, not PAL. But I don't think your player will refuse to read that.
Really ??
I thought it was 15 for Pal and 18 for NTSC.

Quote:
Concerning your error, I'm very surprised that you can have something about 5 ! I never encode above 4 as the result is too bad over that value. Better to stay arround 3. Yous hould rework you script !

Nevertheless the error you have means that the ideal Q value is above the Qmax (or under the Qmin) that you set in HCMatic. The only way to solve that is to raise the QMax (or lower QMin). But as said above, 5 is already too bad !
Yep, I'm surprised, too. One of the DVD is 4 go (1h05), and the other 2 go (52 minutes), I thought it would be easy to put all that on only one dvd.
I guess the 4/3 takes much place...

I will retry your script with mergeluma and mergechroma, see you.
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  #9  
07-10-2008, 03:33 PM
jason jason is offline
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Test with gop at 15; mergechroma/luma added in the script; q range between 2 and 7 :
average quantizer : 5.51

I've noticed the minimum bitrate was between 600 and 1600, that's pretty high, no ?
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  #10  
07-10-2008, 05:38 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I think you are right for GOP length.

Yes 600 is very hight. I don't know what are these doc, but they're surely not a chess game filmed in real time .

Try this script :
Code:
DGDecode_Mpeg2Source("Path/Filename.d2v",cpu=4,idct=7)
ColorMatrix(d2v="Path/Filename.d2v")

#TDeint(tryweave=true)

LanczosResize(...)

LimitedSharpenFaster()
LRemoveDust_YV12(17,1)

ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter( -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)) ).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) , 1, 1)  ")


AddBorders(...)
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  #11  
07-11-2008, 10:59 AM
jason jason is offline
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Hello,

I've tried your script. The clip plays but it says "there is no function named fmin".
I've been looking on this forum and elsewhere (doom9... ) and find no answer. I've added the plugin unfilter.dll, but the error is still there.
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  #12  
07-11-2008, 12:47 PM
jason jason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
I've tried your script. The clip plays but it says "there is no function named fmin".
I've uninstall/reinstall avisynth 2.57, no changes.

Look, I may encode only one dvd. For the other, I may use the m2v demuxed by dgmpgedc and the mp2 created in besweet, it will make 1700 + 72 mo=1772 mo, maybe a little more when it's authorized, let's say 2000 mo top.
It gives me about 2500 mo, right ?
I've just tried hcmatic with only one dvd, and the normal script (with no scriptclip) : source 4.12 go, target 2.5 go, it gives me a q of 4.90.
It's not glorious, but it's the best q I've got so far.

If I'm able to make the scriptclip function working and put the dc prec on 9 or 10, I may gain a few q points.

And it's just documentaries after all, as long as it's watcheable, I don't need a perfect picture.

Anyway, thanks for your help.
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  #13  
07-11-2008, 01:01 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
I've tried your script. The clip plays but it says "there is no function named fmin".
I've uninstall/reinstall avisynth 2.57, no changes.
This is because it's a function, not a built-in command. I forgot I have it in a separate mail.
(note: avisynth 2.58 has now a built-in min/max).

Add these lines at the end of the script :
Quote:
function fmin( int f1, int f2) {
return ( f1<f2 ) ? f1 : f2
}
Remember also that mono sound at 64kbs is allowed on DVD too. May be you don't need to have a stereo, even at 112.
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  #14  
07-11-2008, 01:07 PM
jason jason is offline
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Cool, no error.

I'm doing a test right now.

I will think about the mono sound, too (which would be logical since one of the dvd is 1 ch).

Thanks.
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  #15  
07-11-2008, 01:54 PM
jason jason is offline
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Q=4.27

It's better, isn't it ?

I'll do it like that.

Thanks again.
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  #16  
07-11-2008, 06:49 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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You're welcome .
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  #17  
09-06-2008, 09:56 PM
tengo6dedos tengo6dedos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
HCMatic takes care of all settings except gop length (use 12 for PAL standard, 24 is you want more compression but your DVD won't be in the standards) and max bitrate (you can let 9800 as HCEnc will reduce the max if needed).

How about a pulldowned NTSC material? How far can I go with gop?

also DC should always be set on 8 for low bitrates?



thanks
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  #18  
09-07-2008, 07:22 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Standard for NTSC is 15.
For a reason I can't explain HCenc seems to always produce smaller files with DC=9, not 8 or 10.
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  #19  
09-13-2008, 05:22 PM
tengo6dedos tengo6dedos is offline
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thanks, so i guess i can go as far as my standalone supports with gop, last thing, should i use open gop or closed for better compression?


saluts
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  #20  
09-13-2008, 06:35 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Use closed GOP, it has several benefits and no real drawback (the impact on compression is not very big).
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