Video Stops/Stutters While Playback?

Jellygoose · #1 11-10-2002, 09:40 AM

Hi all...

My problem with all KVCD Templates (Which I love!!! thanx @ kwag), is that the video stutters sometimes... I can see it on my standalone DVD player (Cyberhome ADL 52

and with PowerDVD...
It's nothing serious, and it doesn't happen very often... It's just that the video stops irregularly for just about a tenth of a second... Audio stays perfectly in sync though...
I'm using a Buffer of 48 for the video and i already tried to mess with the GOP Structure... I decreased the Max. Frames per GOP to 46... that helped a little bit (video stops less often)...

I don't know where to start... Is it the GOP? Is it the Buffer? The Q-Matrix?

P.S: I don't know if it's that : I decreased the Min. Bitrate to 0... (thought that would save me some space and my DVD Player can handle it... )

kwag · #2 11-10-2002, 09:47 AM

Hi Jellygoose,

See if your problem is exactly on the same spot. That would indicate a media problem. Also, does it happen on low dark scenes, or high action scenes?

-kwag

Jellygoose · #3 11-10-2002, 11:15 AM

It doesn't happen on the same spots of the movie...
actually it happens more often in scenes with a lot of motion, (doesn't have to be high-action scenes), for example motion in the background and in the foreground...

kwag · #4 11-10-2002, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

It doesn't happen on the same spots of the movie...
actually it happens more often in scenes with a lot of motion, (doesn't have to be high-action scenes), for example motion in the background and in the foreground...

So maybe your problem is not the MIN bit rate. It's the MAX bit rate. This shouldn't happen with the current KVCD LBR, which still has the max set at 1,150Kbps. Have you tried the LBR ?

-kwag

Jellygoose · #5 11-10-2002, 11:41 AM

How could it be the Max. Bitrate? I set the Max. Bitrate to 2600 using the KVCDx2 Template (704x576 PAL)... Do you mean it is too high?? or too low?? A max. Bitrate of 1150 is actually too low for that resolution I think...

Jellygoose · #6 11-10-2002, 12:39 PM

Sorry I have to correct myself... the stops ARE on the same spots of the movie... what do you mean with Media Problem though? The original file doesn't have those stops...

kwag · #7 11-10-2002, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

Sorry I have to correct myself... the stops ARE on the same spots of the movie... what do you mean with Media Problem though? The original file doesn't have those stops...

A media defect on your CD-R, or a flaky CD-R brand. Try another CD-R or you may also try burning at a lower speed.

-kwag

Jellygoose · #8 11-10-2002, 04:51 PM

I burn all my CDRs on 4x speed... I don't think it's the brand of the CDR...
I also see these stops when I view the file from my HD with Power DVD...

strange huh?

kwag · #9 11-10-2002, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

I burn all my CDRs on 4x speed... I don't think it's the brand of the CDR...
I also see these stops when I view the file from my HD with Power DVD...

strange huh?

AHA!. So your problem is in your mpeg file. It's not your DVD player.
Something happened when you encoded your movie.

-kwag

LadyMiles · #10 11-10-2002, 10:46 PM

hi Kwag,
What would be a good flow chart (I remember them for a programming classI took

)for problems with playback.
If the mpeg stutters or has playback error--then the problem is ?

For me both with PowerDVD and my DVD player the Ksvcd and some of my kvcds stutter (i.e. slow down or speed up then back into sync)--then the problem is ?

When is the problem media ? And what media do you suggest ?

If its my Apex 500w, let me know because I might buy a new dvd player, and any suggestions on a new model will be great.

Jellygoose · #11 11-11-2002, 05:12 AM

Right, it's the mpeg file... Yesterday I did some tests...
I messed with the Min. Bitrate and the Max Frames per GOP variables... whenever I change those settings, the stops increase or decrease... I found out that with a min. bitrate of 300 and a GOP of 1,18,3,1,47 the stops are almost gone... they're not completely gone though...

kwag · #12 11-11-2002, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMiles

hi Kwag,
What would be a good flow chart (I remember them for a programming classI took

)for problems with playback.
If the mpeg stutters or has playback error--then the problem is ?

For me both with PowerDVD and my DVD player the Ksvcd and some of my kvcds stutter (i.e. slow down or speed up then back into sync)--then the problem is ?

When is the problem media ? And what media do you suggest ?

If its my Apex 500w, let me know because I might buy a new dvd player, and any suggestions on a new model will be great.

Hi LadyMiles,

WinDVD doesn't like KVCD's ( or any other variable bit rate MPEG-1 ) The sound always plays out of sync. Use WMP to test sync playback of any KVCD MPEG-1. I'm not sure about PowerDVD, because I haven't tried it in a while. You can play MPEG-2's without any problem on WinDVD. Now, if the mpeg stutters or jumps playing back in WMP, there's a problem with the mpeg file. It could be frame rate related or encoding a 29.97fps as 23.976. As for DVD models, I can suggest Panasonig RP-56,or just about every Panasonic model! The best thing is to make 2 or 3 KVCD's of different resolutions, and take them to your favorite store to play them back on different models. That's what I did when I bought mine

Now the funny thing is that one of my favorite local Audio/Video stores, are running KVCD demos on almost all their DVD players on the showroom

It's really refreshing everytime I walk in, and see six or seven TV's and a Panasonic 46" plasma display playing KVCD Demos on a loop

-kwag

LadyMiles · #13 11-11-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Now the funny thing is that one of my favorite local Audio/Video stores, are running KVCD demos on almost all their DVD players on the showroom It's really refreshing everytime I walk in, and see six or seven TV's and a Panasonic 46" plasma display playing KVCD Demos on a loop

That is really cool

So panasonic is the best. Do they play both KVCDs and KSVCDs ?

kwag · #14 11-11-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMiles

Quote:

Now the funny thing is that one of my favorite local Audio/Video stores, are running KVCD demos on almost all their DVD players on the showroom It's really refreshing everytime I walk in, and see six or seven TV's and a Panasonic 46" plasma display playing KVCD Demos on a loop

That is really cool

So panasonic is the best. Do they play both KVCDs and KSVCDs ?

I have two Panasonic models. The RP-56, which plays KVCD's, and a DVD-L10 portable, which plays KVCD's and SKVCD's. The portable plays SVCD's even though it's not on the specs

. The RP-56 plays MPEG-2's burned as VCD too, so it can play a SKVCD burned as VCD. But not a SVCD.

-kwag

LadyMiles · #15 11-11-2002, 02:57 PM

Quote:

I have two Panasonic models. The RP-56, which plays KVCD's, and a DVD-L10 portable, which plays KVCD's and SKVCD's. The portable plays SVCD's even though it's not on the specs . The RP-56 plays MPEG-2's burned as VCD too, so it can play a SKVCD burned as VCD. But not a SVCD.

Okay now I understand why some prefer KVCDs over KSVCDS, not too many players can play KSVCDs.

BTW, I have noticed that I have the same problem as Jellygoose. My mpeg2's sort of pause a bit sometimes when playing them on PowerDVD. I think where it pauses is where my DVD player slows down or speeds up.
Has anyone else had this problem ?

If it's just an mpeg2 thing, then I am sort of torn, because mpeg1 has so many artifacts. But I think when the experiments with addnoise come together I will try that. I keep getting bad link errors whenever I try to down load your sample. My personal experience with add noise haven't been so great thus far, but I was trying it with a 2+ movie and add noise made the file size too big. I guess with freeware you get what you get.

black prince · #16 11-11-2002, 03:48 PM

Hey LadyMiles,

Quote:

But I think when the experiments with addnoise come together I will try that. I keep getting bad link errors whenever I try to down load your sample. My personal experience with add noise haven't been so great thus far, but I was trying it with a 2+ movie and add noise made the file size too big. I guess with freeware you get what you get.

Blockbuster(aka AddNoise)filter is doing great with LBR. When and if the
mosquito noise (aka Gibbs effect) is solved this will be the best looking
LBR ever made. Even now with just Blockbuster's sharpen and
noise filters the picture quality is much much better. Before my LBR
picture quality fuzzy due to TS(1,2), dark background areas were
blocky and standing at least 5 to 6 feet away made it look better. Now the
picture image is more sharper, dark areas are showing no blockiness
and I can stand 3 to 4 feet for a clear image. Just finished the movie
"Enough" with J.LO. (LBR) and viewing it on STD 27" TV, it looks almost
as good as (dare I say it) KVCDx3. Yes that's right it does. Except for
mostquito noise, it really excellent.

I used Cq_vbr = 25 min=300 and
max=2300 bitrates, full screen (4:3) and video file size is 713MB.

-black prince

kwag · #17 11-11-2002, 04:04 PM

Hey black prince,

I did the complete: "Mission: Impossible" movie, also 4:3 full screen with the following parameters:

Blockbuster(method="sharpen", detail_min=60, detail_max=99, strength=20) # Only sharpen material above 60%.
Blockbuster(method="noise", detail_min=1, detail_max=20, lv=1.5) # Only apply noise below 20% complexity.
KVCD LBR parameters ( not posted yet ) GOP 1, 18, 2, 1, 18 and MIN=300, MAX=1800.

It's awesome. There are no block on any dark area. Not even on high speed stuff, because 1,800Kbs is high enough for 352x240.
The Blockbuster filter is truly amazing.

-kwag

black prince · #18 11-11-2002, 04:20 PM

Hey Kwag,

The quality of full screen means wide screen will be much better.

I got the new GOP's for LBR from this site's DVD2SVCD forum. The new
GOP's are making file size more accurate (+-1%) and with your audio
file size formula, it much easier to predict final A/V file size. What
I notice the most is how well defined the picture image is than before.
This is truely a much better looking picture.

-black prince

kwag · #19 11-11-2002, 04:50 PM

black prince,

I still have to update the templates. I'll see if I can update the site later tonight, and I'll post a note on the "What's new" section.

-kwag

LadyMiles · #20 11-11-2002, 07:18 PM

I was going to ask what did the addnoise filter fixed but SansGrip explained it to me on this thread from doom9. I think it would be very helpful to some people

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37395

I guess we can throw out using convultion or tempsmooth right

btw @Kwag I noticed on other forums that they can upload pictures, is there a way that it can be added to this forum ?

Oh I was looking at the panasonic website and they have something called mpeg video noise reduction. Ever heard of this

http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/shop/NewDesign/productlist.asp?Status=Attributes&AttributeType=94 0&CategoryId=%202977&AttributeDesc=MPEG%20Digital% 20Noise%20Reduction%20(Mosquito/Block/3D)