Now make the same samples by removing the resize and add borders from your script, and add under Video arrange method (Center custom size ) and put 528 x 352 and go to "Clip Frame" and "mask" , not clip, your four borders completely framed in black. See what you get now.

-kwag

See my post above for resizing/letterboxing with TMPGEnc. I didn't mask because I already cropped the borders in Avisynth. I'm running another encode now using no cropping in Avisynth and masking in TMPGEnc.

I expect this one to be smaller because I now have black borders left and right, whereas before I didn't. That might be where your difference is coming from...

Edit: Yep, slightly smaller file size due to small black borders left and right. From the look of the clips you posted I'd say you're adding fairly wide borders left and right now, which are hidden by overscan on most analog TVs. My TV doesn't do that, however, and I have to encode right to the edges otherwise I have visible black borders on the TV.

Incidentally, you can obtain the same result within Avisynth by resizing less wide, then using AddBorders to make up the missing width.

I'm only adding 2 overscan blocks for 528X resolutions and above. For 352x I add 1 overscan block. I haven't had a problem with 2 even on my HDTV, but 3 cuts off a little on the sides. But even the samples I encoded resizing with AviSynth, I had the same overscan blocks too. So the number of pixels being encoded was the same.

-kwag

Test results on a fast-action scene, CQ_VBR 25, external resizing/letterboxing:

Max GOP 15: 6.28mb
Max GOP 24: 6.11mb
Max GOP 36: 6.08mb

My TV is a Samsung "extra inch" model, which hides between 6 and 8 pixels left and right depending on the overall luminosity of that scene (brighter = fewer pixels hidden).

Perhaps you were adding noise to the overscan borders too?

Are you using 2 B frames or 3
All the tests I did were using 3 B frames.

-kwag

Same here -- everything else is standard KVCDx3.

I tested a sample of "Lolita" (black and white) with KVCDx2 with GOP-
I used the traditional method (bilinear resize, add borders)

edit: I did another test sample at 1,5823,3,1,8 filesize= 13,898kb
-ren

This is bizarre. What am I doing that you're not, or vice versa?

Edit: Maybe it's the different template...?

Hi Kwag,

Here my test results for LBR (352x240) CQ_VBR=36.97 movie length = 8465 secs.
Note Bilinear and AddBorder are commented.

LoadPlugin("E:\DVD Backup\2 - DVD2SVCD\MPEG2DEC\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\DVD Backup\2 - DVD2SVCD\BlockBuster\BlockBuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\DVD Backup\2 - DVD2SVCD\LegalClip\LegalClip.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\Temp\movie.d2v")
#
LegalClip()
#LanczosResize(336,192)
TemporalSmoother(1,2)
Blockbuster( method="noise", detail_min=1, detail_max=10, variance=.5, cache=1024 )
#AddBorders(8,24,8,24 )
LegalClip()
#
IL = Framecount / 100 # interval length in frames
SL = round(Framerate) # sample length in frames
SelectRangeEvery(IL,SL)

Results:

GOP...........Test file size

1,6,3,1,6 = 9,920,774
1,7,3,1,7 = 9,933,956
1,8,3,1,8 = 8,437,159
1,9,3,1,9 = 8,459,455
1,10,3,1,10 = 8,460,316
1,11,3,1,11 = 9,026,206
1,12,3,1,12 = 8,665,136
1,13,3,1,13 = 8,672,708
1,14,3,1,14 = 8,674,234
1,15,3,1,15 = 9,105,185
1,16,3,1,16 = 9,642,647
1,18,3,1,18 = 9,651,592
1,24,3,1,24 = 8,644,753

The GOP 1,15,3,1,15 had a file size difference of –0.023%. The wanted file size
is 732,280,000. I am not sure what you mean by optimal GOP, but it’s certainly didn’t
produce the smallest test result.


-black prince

Hi black prince,

Yes, I was just talking to Christopher on a PM about this , and it seems that there's an optimal GOP for every specific resolution. The GOP 1-15-3-1-15 gave me optimal results on 704x480 resolution. We must make more test and find out if the GOP is not affected by the CQ_VBR value. As Christopher suggested to me on a PM, probably we're going to end up with a GOP prediction system and a file size prediction system ( WOW, This is getting fun now )
So more tests have to be conducted at various resolutions to find out if we can do this. Probably for zeroing in on a GOP size, some small 10 second samples should be enough. Looking forward to this stuff

-kwag

Geez i remember when i first came to this site and it was just load the .d2v and audio in tempgenc and selct your template and bam we are done. now we are venturing into predicting gop's wow. I have used tempgenc to resize and used the new gop 1 15 3 1 15 and it looks damn good. The only prob is i have a 50% increase in encode time which is like an additional 4 hours. The additional bit rate is worth it. I am glad your never stop plugging away, always searching for way to increase the quality and playtime. Many thanks go your way.

Branden

__________________
Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die

Let the new GOP prediction party begin

Oh, btw heyitsme, every time I read your signature, something pops up in my mind. I would write it like this:
Eat drink and be merry, then get married, then divorce. Re-marry and divorce again. Get screwed in court, for tomorrow we die

Just kidding

-kwag

If that's what it comes to I can certainly add it to the Predictor . However I have a feeling that we'll find an optimal GOP size for each of the templates/resolutions rather than having to adjust the GOP for specific source material.

At least, it would be much simpler that way...

I just had the feeling you were going to say that SansGrip
Let the party begin To do it manually, it's a hassle, but I can see that definitively a different GOP is needed for each template/resolution.
It's your call I have a feeling I won't go to sleep tonight until I'm exhausted doing GOP tests . I'm off to 7-Eleven to get some beers now BRB....
Hint: I just tried 1-10-4-1-10 with the 704x480 template and I got a sample size of 10.6MB . With the 1-15-3-1-15, the same sample was 12.776MB and I can't see any quality difference on my monitor. Other values with 4 B frames gave me larger file sizes.

Edit: Drop the idea of 4 B frames. I just took a very close look and there are slight artifacts more visible. So the MAX of 3 B frames should be left alone. It gives better compression than 2, and quality stays the same. The ideal thing is to find the optimal number of P's

-kwag

I have been trying various different GOP structures using 352x480 resolution and have found the following.

One minute clip with external clipping and resizing.....

CQ of 20

GOP 1-36-3-1-36 = 9,151KB

GOP 1-10-3-1-10 = 5,981KB

Difference of (9,151 - 5,699 = 3,170KB )

-Christopher

ROFL

Hmmmm....about the 4 b frames. I have only a 25 inch tv at home. Would it be alright if i changed it to 4 frames as long i am not watching it on a 60 inch hdtv. Would i notice a difference between 3 and 4?

Branden

__________________
Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die

Hi Kwag and SansGrip,

If your developing an optimal GOP for each resolution, wouldn't it be
easier to post a certain movie with its information (i.e. Widescreen,
minutes, etc.), an avs script you'll be using and let some of us divide
the testing among those willing to get involved. Assign pairs of testers
the same resolutions to test. This will provide for verification. I will
volunteer for LBR or x3 testing. Also, I suggest you pick filters that will
give the same results when repeating a test. This will help to establish
a Baseline. Later other filters (i.e. Blockbuster noise) can be added to
your testing.

-black prince

So it seems the lower the resolution, the tighter the GOP
Did you try other different settings, with the MAX frames per GOP set to 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, etc., to find the exact minimum file size spot?
I'll try some tests in a little while at 352x240.

-kwag