Thanks Kwag.

I tried using the KVCDx3-MPEG-1-PAL.mcf template without changing the size to 544x576 and all I got on the AD-1500 was garbage, so the size change is necessary. I also tried 704x576 and it works great. All with 23.976 fps AVI source file. So maybe the note should say 544x576 or 704x576.

Done

-kwag

You mean you just input a 23.976 fps AVI with a 25 fps template and it works (and audio is in synch until the end of the movie)? Or did you make any frame rate conversion (on the video and/or audio)?

I'm interested because my player (Philco dv-P2500) cannot play 23.976 480 lines NTSC MPEG-1 templates, only if it's 240 lines. I did a 25fps AVI with a PAL template once (Quadrophenia - 2 discs), the synch and smoothness are OK, altough it seemed to me that the aspect ratio was not perfect.

Thanks Peter and most especially KWAG!

The templates are absolutely fantastic once you figure out how to get them to work on your DVD player. I'll have to compare using 29.97 fps (704x480) with 25 fps (704x576) for 23.976 sources with respect to file size and quality with a test encode. Have you directly compared the two for quality/size?

I'm doing The Matrix right now, and I think I should be able to get it on one CD with amazing quality using a CQ of 70, 25fps, 704x576--I'll let you know.

Hey Peter, I specifically logged on to say that I messed up big time in saying to change the resolutions from _x560 for the template to work in the apex ad-1500. It just came to me last night at work while thinking about why it wouldn't work for you. I can't believe I kept on writing the wrong figure and never seeing that it was wrong. I was going to tell you that it should be _x576.

Anyway, reading from the latest posts, I see that you got it right without my help. I'm sorry about that.

GFR
For a 23.976 fps source file, use the KVCDx3-MPEG-1-PAL.mcf template and change the frame size that the video is being encoded at from 528x576 to 544x576 on the Video tab in TMPGEnc (so that the resulting video has a frame size of 544x576 and will be at 25 fps). Changing the frame size from 528x576 to 704x576 will also work.

I do not know about other DVD players, this is for Apex AD-1500. Audio seems seems OK for short tests I have done. I guess we will find out when Heller finishes The Matrix. This is an experiment that is still in progress. It has only been tried on two players so far.

I'd like to finish The Matrix encode but I'm having problems with the second half of the movie.

First half encoded fine from 25 fps avi file at 704x576 CQ70 using spacedust and temporalsmoother filters. I'm having terrible difficulty encoding the avi for the second half of the movie--with the same exact settings I keep getting "floating point decimal errors" from TMPEnc (2.510) around 1min 15sec into the movie. I screened the avi sith virtualdub and no bad frames were found, and it plays fine in WMP and all my other players. I tried bypassing this section by starting several frames later, but got the same error after encoding about 60 seconds worth of the avi.

I tried changing CQ to 68 as some have suggested for this problem, to no avail. I'm currently trying without the dust filter on as I've also seen suggested, and still waiting for that to finish (but I'd like to use the filter if at all possible). I also re-installed TMPG from scratch without it helping. Also, my DirecShow priority is already 1 (everything else 0 or -1). I'm also going to try doing the audio separately (right now I have TMPEnc do both as I've never been disappointed with the results) and see if that makes a difference.

Any suggestions? Can I cross post this in the TMPEnc section? Sorry this is so long!

Thanks in advance for any help.

Just an update on other tests to get around this floating point problem:

Encoding video only doesn't help.
Changing CQ to 69 (1 less than first attempt at 70) doesnt' work.
Increasing DirectShow priority to 2 (from 1) doesn't help.

The only things that seem to work (so far!) are:
1) Not using Spacedust (which I'd like to use)
2) Using VBV 40 (I've been using VBV of 22 as it gives me smaller encodes for some reason with identical quality to my eye) (makes files bigger so I'd like to find another solution)

Any other ideas. Thanks!

Heller,
I am using VBV 40. You might try reducing the max number of frames in GOP from 24 to 18, but this will increase file size also. I have been comparing 29.97 fps with 25 fps files. It is hard to see any difference but the 25 fps may be just a little bit better.

Seems like VBV 40 is doing the trick. It's too bad--VBV 22 was definitely saving some file size. Oh well.

I'm trying a 23.976 source at 25 fps--I'll tell you how it works out.

Thanks for the assistance.

Success!

23.976 source encoded to 704x576 25 fps looks great! No jerkiness or audio cut outs! So now I know what to do with 23.976 and 25 fps sources.

Peter, have you tried any 29.97 sources? They should play properly at 704x480 and 29.97 fps, right? I don't have any 29.97 sources handy to test right now, but I know I've come across them before.

Also, in general what's the lowest that you've gone with your CQ at 704x480 or x576 kvcdx3 mpeg-1 and still had good quality?

Thanks again to everyone for their help! This is definitely the place to go for friendly advice and an encouraging atmosphere. I'm still astounded at the small file sizes and truly fantastic quality--the KVCD's look better on my TV than the original avi's do on my monitor!

Still working on the Matrix--I'll let you know tomorrow how it looks.

Heller,
I posted a summary of our results under Standalone DVD/VCD Players. I have not been using KVCD since it wouldn't work on my AD-1500 before now so I don't have any history to share. I am doing some tests now. Thanks again for your help. Kwag has been getting some great results, it will be interesting to see if I can too. I am encoding home videos, not DVDs, so I am not as interested in getting many hours on a single CD. I just want to be able to watch my videos on a large screen TV and have them look good.

In case anyone is still following this, I was able to get the Matrix onto 1 cd with overburning, cq65 at 704x576 with good quality. Had some visible blocks in the dark scenes, and some slight but noticeable pixellation in the high action scenes.

Will Blockbuster do anything to improve this, or do I need to increase the CQ and decrease the resolution to improve on this? Will increasing the CQ help get rid of the blocks during the dark scenes?

Thanks all!

Only using KVCDx3 528x480(576) would help you raise the CQ and use blockbuster(noise) to reduce visible DCT blocks on dark areas and maintain a quality close to 704x480. 704x480 is to high for a 2+ hour movie on a single CD. However, if you split that movie on 2 CDs, the result will be DVD like

-kwag

I read your mine Kwag--I'm going to split it onto 2 CDs 704x576 and use Blockbuster with a high CQ.

I think there's no point in trying to cram 2 hr high-action movies onto one CD, but maybe I'll give it a try at 544x576 anyway....

I've tried using the 544x576@25fps MPEG-1 KVCDx3 template for a 23.976 source.

The results (in my player - Philco DV-P2500) were:

1) The audio is in synch for all the movie and smooth, no more periodic cutouts;
2) The aspect ratio seems OK, chapters work.
3) BUT the video is not smooth... it seems to "stop" for brief moments and then restart... almost imperceptible, but annoying.

GFR,

Maybe its your player. Peter and I are using Apex 1500's and it works fine for us. Have you tried uing 528x480 and 23.976 fps with kvcdx3 mpeg1? If this works there's no need to use our settings. We have to change resolutions and frame rate to get kvcdx3 to work with our apex players.

Hope this helps!

The only mpeg-1 resolution that works with my player (@23.976) is 320x240. At any other resolution the audio cuts out periodically.

It can play SKVCD and KVCDx3 (544x480) if it's mpeg-2 ("pulldowned" to 29.97).

It can play 528x480 mpeg-2 if I burn it as an ISO disc, but if I burn as SVCD it gets compressed at the right side of the screen.

I once tried to ignore the warnings and pulldown the mpeg-1 stream, it corrected the audio cutouts but the video was not smooth. The result is similar to your 25 fps trick, but less subtle.

I just wish I could use mpeg-1 .

I've just tried to use AssumeFPS and speed up the audio in BeSweet (to make a true 25fps source), but the audio got too Mickey-Mousy for my tastes I think now I'll try to correct the pitch with Goldwave or CoolEdit.

Hey GFR,

Have you tried KVCDx3 at 544x480 and 29.97fps (or any of the other resolutions @ that framerate)? I realize that you will be losing ~ 20% of the compression benefits of the kvcd templates (set @ 23.97fps) by doing this, but at least maybe it would work on your player then? My dvd player (Sampo 631CF....built in Taiwan) also only plays the 352x240 resolution kvcd templates properly at 23.97fps, but chokes on all other MPG-1 resolutions if left @23.97fps (skipping/stuttering audio + video). Nothing else, including header/burning tricks would make them work. But if I change to 29fps, all resolutions play flawlessly (except for 528x480 which needs to be changed to 544x480). I know it sucks not being able to use the templates at their default 23.97fps...I feel your pain man! Hope you figure something out.

-d&c

yes, it works @29.97, but then I'd have to lower the CQ too much and I'd rather use MPEG-2 with pulldown.