Quantcast TMPGEnc Standard SVCD Template Better than KVCDx3 MPEG-2! - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-14-2003, 10:12 AM
heller heller is offline
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After extensive testing using the KVCDx3 mpeg-2 PAL and NTSC templates on different avi sources (all DVD rips, some live action and some animated movies), I've found that the regular TMPGEnc SVCD templates give me much better quality movies at almost the same file sizes using CQ and high quality (slow) settings.

I've tried all sorts of avisynth filters combinations with KVCDx3 mpeg-2 (temporalsmoother, dust, blockbuster, faerydust, etc) but all lead to much worse picture quality (even no filters at all with KVCDx3 templates). I've tried resolutions of 480x480 and 544x480 for KVCDx3 (my player doesn't like 528x480). With the KVCDx3 templates I can actually see all of the horizontal scan lines on my TV, whereas with the standard SVCVD template the picture is smooth (no visible scan lines).

Maybe its because I'm using avi sources and not directly extracting from a DVD source, but I'm encoding from the same sources for tests and KVCDx3 definitely looks worse. I'm going back to the standard SVCD template for all my encoding for now.

BTW, I view all SVCDs using an APEX 1500 on a Sony KP53HS10 53" rear projection TV with 1080i. Maybe my TV is doing some weird interpolation that messes up the KVCDx3 encodes?

Is there something peculiar to my setup that's causing this?

Thanks. :P
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  #2  
02-14-2003, 10:32 AM
Bald_Guy Bald_Guy is offline
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Is there a guide you went off of to make the svcd? Just wondering because I recently made a xvcd hq rip of lotr 2 and it was hq but it had to be 4 cd's to do it. I have a 57"widescreen sony so hq is very important (seems though I can see every flaw)
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  #3  
02-14-2003, 01:01 PM
heller heller is offline
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I've been encoding for a while now, so I'm not following any particular guide.

My general process is to extract the audio with VirtualDub, encode the audio portion with HeadA3che to mp2, and encode the video portion with TMPGEnc using the appropriate AVS file. I use GripCrop and GripBorders to resize as needed. I use BBMpeg to mux the files, and burn with Nero as a non-standard SVCD for the KVCDx3 encodes.
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  #4  
02-14-2003, 01:22 PM
Bald_Guy Bald_Guy is offline
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question? Why dont you just encode the video and the audio with tmpenc? I just rip the sound with virtual dub and then simply encode with tmpenc. Just wonderin why you make extra steps. Other question is I usually encode my dvds to avi with vidomi. I 99% of the time encode them to 2disks then when I encode them to svcd I encode then to 4 disk to retain the quality. Is this true for you.
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  #5  
02-14-2003, 01:29 PM
heller heller is offline
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I do actually do the audio and video encoding in TMPGEnc if I don't care that much about the audio quality of a movie (e.g. kids animated movie), but I use HeadAc3he if I want the preserve quality audio (e.g. LOTR).

I used to encode only 30-40 minutes of SVCD per disk when I used CBR encoding (and thus spread movies out across 3-4 disks), but now that I use CQ I can definitely get 60-70 minutes of high quality live action letterbox format movie on one SVCD disk, and sometimes up to 90 minutes of animated movie onto one disk (using the standard SVCD template).

I thought I'd be able to get longer lengths with better quality using the KVCDx3 templates, but that has not been the case for me.
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  #6  
02-14-2003, 01:58 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi heller,

If you only want to make SVCDs, load the SKVCD template and change the resolution to 480x480. You'll have the benefit of the KVCD's Q. Matrix and GOP, and you'll get far more time and quality on a single CD-R than with the standard SVCD templates

-kwag
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  #7  
02-14-2003, 02:48 PM
heller heller is offline
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Thanks kwag, I'll give it a try!

BTW, I can't thank you enough for your wonderful patience and thoughtful guidance that you offer on this site. I just hope I can get your templates to work as well for me as they have for others.

Great work!!
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  #8  
02-14-2003, 03:03 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Thanks heller

Here. For your SVCDs, run your movie through a script like this, and see what you get

Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\GripFit_preview.dll") 
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\blockbuster.dll") 
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\legalclip.dll") 
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\sampler.dll") 
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\dustv5.dll") 
LoadPlugin("C:\encoding\temporalcleanerold.dll")

Mpeg2Source("K:\S1M0NE_WS\VIDEO_TS\simone.d2v")
LegalClip() 
GripCrop( width=480, height=480, overscan=1 ) 
GripSize() 
SpaceDust()
TemporalCleaner()
Blockbuster(method="noise", variance=.4, seed=1)
GripBorders() 
LegalClip() 
Sampler(length=24)

## MPEG size = ((Total frames/MovieTimeInMinutes)/24) * MPEG sample file size * .98 ##

There's a "Downloads" link on the main page at www.kvcd.net that links to all filter sources.

-kwag
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  #9  
02-14-2003, 03:32 PM
heller heller is offline
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Got all the filters already--I'll give it a try over this weekend.
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  #10  
02-15-2003, 04:22 PM
big big is offline
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where do you dll your temporalcleanerold.dll...when we dll it is temporalcleaner.dll...where is the old coming from???
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  #11  
02-15-2003, 04:27 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big
where do you dll your temporalcleanerold.dll...when we dll it is temporalcleaner.dll...where is the old coming from???
It's here in this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...d&pagenumber=3

-kwag
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  #12  
02-15-2003, 05:59 PM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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I have an Apex AD-1500 and I have found that it does not like KVCD files. I recommend using mpeg2 (KDVD). The Apex AD-1500 will play mpeg2 SVCDs with 720x480 and 704x480 frame sizes (make using VCDEasy). If you are willing to only get 35 minutes per CD, you can get DVD quality. You can get 2 hours per CD using 352x240 frame size. Note - old KDVD template gives better quailty than new one at bit rates over 1500 kbps (new one is better below 1500 kbps).
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  #13  
02-15-2003, 09:08 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1234
I have an Apex AD-1500 and I have found that it does not like KVCD files.
Yes it does: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....ghlight=ad1500
But you must encode MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-1.

-kwag
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  #14  
02-15-2003, 11:05 PM
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
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I too have apex 1500 and it works quite well. I just use the templates for mpeg1 exactly as is but change the output resolution to it's PAL equivalent, say 704x560, 480x560, 244x560, etc. - the result? the xvcd is perfect, no stuttering, no sync problems, etc.

The only template that doesn't work with it is the 528x560 resolution, although I'm not too convinced it would't work because I just tried it once. It might not have worked due to a different reason.
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  #15  
02-15-2003, 11:58 PM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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Timberwolf,
When you say your xvcd is perfect does that imply you are using mpeg2. My point was that mpeg2 seems to work better than mpeg1 on the Apex AD-1500. If you are getting good results using mpeg1 with the KVCD matrix please let me know.
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  #16  
02-16-2003, 12:01 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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Timberwolf,
Sorry, I guess you said you are using the mpeg1 templates exactly except for size.
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  #17  
02-16-2003, 01:13 AM
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
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Yeah, it's mpeg 1. mpeg2 also works with the templates but with the low bitrates the templates are using, blocks are unavoidable. unlike with mpeg1 where with the right dvd source, the end result is sometimes indistinguishable from the dvd itself.

aside from the better result with mpeg1 with my method, I don't have to demux/mux the mpg with bbmpeg to make it work with the apex ad-1500. You just take the end result of the TempGenc and burn it as a non-standard vcd. that's it!
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  #18  
02-16-2003, 01:47 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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Timberwolf,
I used a 23.976 fps AVI source (video and audio). I generated two mpeg1 files using the current KVCDx2-CQ-704x480-_NTSCFilm_-PLUS.mcf template with 480 changed to 560. The first was generated by making a m1v elementary stream and a mp2 elementary stream and then muxing them with MPEG Tools using MPEG-1 (automatic). The second was generated as a system (video + audio) stream. VCDEasy was then used to generate a VCD 2.0 disk with these two mpeg1 files. The resulting disk would not play on my Apex AD-1500. Any idea what I did wrong?
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  #19  
02-16-2003, 02:18 AM
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
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I have no idea. I can only tell you the steps I do.

I rip the dvd with smartripper.

I produce the d2v file using dvd2avi

I feed the d2v file to fitcd of which the result is in turn fed to TmpGenC. I don't bother working on the audio and video separately so I gnenrate them both as a system stream (video + audio). I don't bother much with filters because I'm already satisfied with the result without them.

I then take the resulting mpg and use VCDeasy to burn the vcd.


I've read of this method of using the templates as is but changing the output resolution to __x560 from this board a year ago (or has just started) actually. The first time I tried it, it worked right away. My method then was Smartripper -> DVD2Avi -> TmpGenC ->VCDEasy. My method now has some added steps and the templates were revised but the method still works, and I've done over a two hundred dvds right now the same way and it still is working.

I'm sorry I can't pinpoint what went wrong with your test but the method does work for me, and I assure you that my player is Apex AD-1500. I don't know what to tell you man, there was really no tricks to what I did, I just did the most basic steps and it worked.

A question, when you said you changed the size to _x560, you changed it from the ADVANCED tab in TmpGenC, right? I also change the settings at FitCD but it really doesn't matter, it should still work if you don't because I did it once and it still did.
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  #20  
02-16-2003, 02:45 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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Timberwolf,
Thankyou for taking the time to help me out. I changed the size on the video tab size boxes, not the advanced tab. I have never had to change the size on the advanced tab before. Are you changing it in the Video arrange method pixels boxes?
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