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  #41  
04-20-2003, 10:20 AM
PyRoMaNiA PyRoMaNiA is offline
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I'm the one still doing 20 hours...

Don't see what it could be....encoding to 7200rpm Hard Drive, with 512MBs SDRAM and a 1GHz Athlon Thunderbird. I normally encode to 480x480...using this kind of script:
Code:
LegalClip()
GripCrop(480,480)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(10, 50, 0, 0, 10, 50)
PixieDust()
unfilter(50,50)
mergechroma(blur(1.58))
mergeluma(blur(0.3))
GripBorders()
LegalClip()
Defragmented a few days ago and it didn't seem to make any difference...what could it be?
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  #42  
04-20-2003, 11:11 AM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hi PyRo..

I wish I could help ya, but I'm still using AVIsynth v1.0 beta 5, and most
of those filters mergechroma(blur( 1.58 )) and mergeluma(blur( 0.3 )) for ie,
don't work, not to mention the others that require v2.x and higher.
I'd give that script a test, but I can't

Well, I don't use that many filters anyways, and I guess that one of my
delimas in making the switch. Besides, I had so many issues w/ color in
my privious encodes of yesterdays, (the past) that I'm just fighting the switch.

Defraging your hd won't do much for your processing time, but it can't hurt.

I have an idea though..

How about running a few tests.. for instance, just take ONE item out, and
run an encode. But, don't "go all the way" he he.. actually, just wait to see
TMPG give you an estimation. Then, do the same with each, and also do
a few combinations of filters and see what TMPG's estimation is. Once you
have found a short time estimate, you're on your way to finding the cause
of your filter that is causing your "slow up". If I had only had the exper.
w/ those filters, I'd of probably guesed what was causing the slowness

Good luck anyways.
-vhelp
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  #43  
04-20-2003, 12:50 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
Kwag, curious.. do you have a DV cam yet ??
Nope. My camera is a ~4 year old Sony Hi-8

-kwag
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  #44  
04-20-2003, 12:58 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hi Kwag,

ok.. just thought that you had one.. being that you love so much being
on top of latest in just aobut everything

Well, I'm waiting for my Osprey-210 analog capture card - - ta add to my
list of video devices. I heard a few GOOD things about it, and want to
give it a try. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE my ADVC-100 but lets face it,
and don't forget.. that its video source is "compressed" hence DV. Anyways..
And, there IS a difference between DV vs. Analog (uncompressed) but not
by much. But I believe it is depend (quantity'wise) per Capture card and
Maker - we'll see in my next testings of my Osprey-210. I hope it proves
positive

I'm always looking for the best Analog Capture card out there, and I think
the Osprey-210 is it (so far) after shopping around on-line, I was able to
locate a fair price @ $165 (retail $199) - - should arrive around Monday
or Tuesday - can't wait

-vhelp
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  #45  
04-20-2003, 01:13 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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.
And, here is a comment snipped on it's notary from:
ducas NEWS..

Quote:
"The Osprey-210 and Osprey-540 are examples of professional grade digital and analog captures devices specifically designed for streaming media applications. Both provide the audio and video inputs, outputs and advanced features required for optimized live rich media content creation. Osprey Video products have been named the "de facto standard" by DV Magazine and recently voted best streaming media hardware in the 2002 Streaming Magazine readers choice aware."
.
.

just realized that it may have ben modified, being that there's TWO pics.
FROM: RealNetworks - read the specs there too.
.
or
.

And, the on-line store, where I ordered it from: DV Direct

and some specs from www.ht.com

Quote:
The Osprey-210 ships with a breakout cable for video and audio inputs.
Features:
- Multiple Osprey-210’s per chassis (Windows NT, 2000 and XP)
- Advanced DMA for ultra-high performance (full 30fps)
- BNC composite video input
- Audio Loop-back
- Hardware audio gain control
- Closed Caption
- Compatible with SimulStream
Benefits:
- Increased integration flexibility by allowing multiple cards to operate within a single PC
- Captures full frame video at 30 frames per second for maximum quality
- Supports most popular video and audio APIs
- Professional video connector enhances reliability
- Monitoring of audio capture without impacting rich media delivery
- Enhanced sound capture at lower bit rates
- Windows 95/98, NT, 2000 and XP support
- Linux support
-vhelp
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  #46  
04-20-2003, 01:24 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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What chipset is in that card That's the most important thing
Is the ADC 8, 9 or 10 bit

-kwag
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  #47  
04-20-2003, 01:42 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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Hay Kwag..

I just edited the previous page. Apparently, there may have ben a revision made
to the 210 model. The first pic looks like my ATIW cards' breakout connection
(the one w/ the circle at top) so do have a look - at least out of curiosity.

Kwag Wrote:
Quote:
What chipset is in that card That's the most important thing
Is the ADC 8, 9 or 10 bit
I'll let you know when I get my hands on the card itself !! But, w/ my luck,
it's probably 8 bits

* Any chance you might know what our WinTV-GO is rate at ??
* And, how about the ATI-TV Wonder pci card ??
* Oh, and the DC10+ ??

Thanks for bringing this up though. I didn't realise how important this is to an
Analog Capture device. I'm sure the higher the bits, the better!

I just did a search on vcdhelp, but they don't have a review. Guess no one has it
there yet or they just didn't post a review for it (probably bad) Maybe I'll post
first he he..

In any event, I'll give you a heads up
-vhelp
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  #48  
04-20-2003, 01:56 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp

* Any chance you might know what our WinTV-GO is rate at ??
* And, how about the ATI-TV Wonder pci card ??
* Oh, and the DC10+ ??
Not sure about the DC10+, but the WinTV and the ATI are 8 bits for sure
Quote:

I'm sure the higher the bits, the better!
You bet!. There was a review of a card, not so long ago at vcdhelp, about a cheap card that is 10 bits. I can't recall the name, but 10 bits is a huge improvement over any 8 bit capture card. You could also go and grab this: http://www.avland.co.uk/panasonic/dm...d-recorder.htm and then I guarantee you will never look back at any capture card

-kwag
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  #49  
04-20-2003, 07:04 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hay Kwag..

..back again, after a tiring search.

ok, here is what I found on this card, though it's only hear-say from another
forum.. basically, it's basd on a BT878 chipset, but again, this is not
conclusive, rather someone's assumption. But, I'm tempted to believe the above
anyways though. It's looking more so, an 8bit card.

There is a cheap 10 bit card out there, that I'm researching on.
I think PixelView is using the chipset in one.

I started a thread on the Osprey-210 card, for discussions, so not to taint
THIS thread's original topic. You can find the link below:
--> Capture card: Osprey-210.. my experience..

Kwag.. Thanks for the heads-up on the 10 bit.
-vhelp
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  #50  
04-20-2003, 09:14 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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@Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Quote:
Hi MrTibs,

Actually we can tell the compressibility of the source. The problem is that we can't tell the compressibility of the mpeg that TMPEG will create
That is why I suggested a "scan" of bitrate per frame on the source, and then scale that to MIN/MAX/AVG and feed TMPEG the data directly as picture type. This way, TMPEG will encode each frame at the specified bit rate, which it does provide for that on the advanced/force picture type settings. I'm currently hacking into DVD2AVI source, as I believe it's the ideal program to genete the raw frame/bit rate data. This way, after we finish saving DVD2AVI's project file, we'll have the .d2v, the AC3 or MP2, and a "someName.txt" file that we can process with a "soon-to-be-made" program that will analyze the data, normalize it, guarantee that the average bit rate will be the one we tell it to be, and generate a TMPEG .txt file ready to be processed. I already have the frame numbers identified in DVD2AVI and I'm looking at the source to find out where/if the bit rate information is available on a per frame basis. If anyone ( sh0dan, canman, sansgrip ) or any developer here that has worked a lot with mpeg2dec sources ( dvd2avi sources ), I'd appreciate if they help me identify the module, or the proper call to identify bit rate information on current processed frames
Interesting program. I used divx4log, which did something similar for
Divx 2-pass. You run VirtualDub using 2-pass and after the first pass
run divx4log to normalize the bitrate allocated to each frame. Then
substitute the log created by div4log to do the second pass. It forced
Divx to follow the bitrate normalized by divx4log. It didn't work well,
but only due to the developer's algo. His algo was suppose to improve
allocating bitrates to fast scenes and complicated (e.g. water, smoke)
scenes.

-black prince
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  #51  
04-20-2003, 09:20 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baker

Next up I know kwags going to get wary wary angry when I start to mention CCE as he's actually got a wee personal vendandatta(how close was that spelling ) going against it.
Not at all! CCE is fine for high bit rates and MPEG-2, specially for DVD encodings >5Mbps. But for low bitrates, TMPEG just wins hands down every time


-kwag
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  #52  
04-20-2003, 10:12 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black prince
@Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Quote:
Hi MrTibs,

Actually we can tell the compressibility of the source. The problem is that we can't tell the compressibility of the mpeg that TMPEG will create
That is why I suggested a "scan" of bitrate per frame on the source, and then scale that to MIN/MAX/AVG and feed TMPEG the data directly as picture type. This way, TMPEG will encode each frame at the specified bit rate, which it does provide for that on the advanced/force picture type settings. I'm currently hacking into DVD2AVI source, as I believe it's the ideal program to genete the raw frame/bit rate data. This way, after we finish saving DVD2AVI's project file, we'll have the .d2v, the AC3 or MP2, and a "someName.txt" file that we can process with a "soon-to-be-made" program that will analyze the data, normalize it, guarantee that the average bit rate will be the one we tell it to be, and generate a TMPEG .txt file ready to be processed. I already have the frame numbers identified in DVD2AVI and I'm looking at the source to find out where/if the bit rate information is available on a per frame basis. If anyone ( sh0dan, canman, sansgrip ) or any developer here that has worked a lot with mpeg2dec sources ( dvd2avi sources ), I'd appreciate if they help me identify the module, or the proper call to identify bit rate information on current processed frames
Interesting program. I used divx4log, which did something similar for
Divx 2-pass. You run VirtualDub using 2-pass and after the first pass
run divx4log to normalize the bitrate allocated to each frame. Then
substitute the log created by div4log to do the second pass. It forced
Divx to follow the bitrate normalized by divx4log. It didn't work well,
but only due to the developer's algo. His algo was suppose to improve
allocating bitrates to fast scenes and complicated (e.g. water, smoke)
scenes.

-black prince
But with divx4log you had to wait for one full pass right? Which is what I'm trying to substitute for a one pass "Fast Scan", because it's just reading the stream, and not encoding to a temporary "one pass" file for later analysis and encoding of the second pass!.
I've chosen DVD2AVI for this purpose, as we all use DVD2AVI to process our files. So I've integrated this functions transparently in DVD2AVI, so that there is no user interaction. This is how it works: You run DVD2AVI as usual. When you save your project file, say you saved to a name like "movie.d2v". This is an example of what you'll get:

Code:
movie.d2v
movie.d2v.stats
movie AC3 T01 3_2ch 448Kbps DELAY 0ms.ac3
The file movie.d2v.stats, right now just contains the frame number and the type of frame. Like this:

Code:
0 -> I Frame
1 -> B Frame
2 -> P Frame
3 -> B Frame
4 -> B Frame
5 -> P Frame
6 -> B Frame
7 -> B Frame
8 -> P Frame
9 -> B Frame
10 -> B Frame
11 -> P Frame
12 -> B Frame
13 -> B Frame
14 -> I Frame
15 -> B Frame
16 -> B Frame
17 -> P Frame
18 -> B Frame
19 -> B Frame
20 -> P Frame
21 -> B Frame
22 -> B Frame
23 -> P Frame
24 -> B Frame
25 -> B Frame
26 -> I Frame
27 -> B Frame
28 -> B Frame
29 -> P Frame
30 -> B Frame
31 -> B Frame
Etc, etc, etc..
If I get this to work, and I find out how to get the bit rate for each B, P, and I frame, then the actual information will be something like this:

Code:
0,I,5203121 
1,B,2000000 
2,P,3500121
3,B,1891212
4,B,1708765
Which will contain the exact information for each frame, and this is the information that will be "massaged" with a small external program that will create the ascii file ready to be imported into TMPEG.

Here's the executable so you can try it. It's DVD2AVI 1.76 modified, now named DVD2AVI+Stats. Also I compiled it with full speed optimizations with VC++ Enterprice Edition, so it should be a little bit faster than the regular DVD2AVI 1.76 . http://www.kvcd.net/dvd2avis.exe
Try it

-kwag
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  #53  
04-21-2003, 12:51 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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@Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Quote:
Here's the executable so you can try it. It's DVD2AVI 1.76 modified, now named DVD2AVI+Stats. Also I compiled it with full speed optimizations with VC++ Enterprice Edition, so it should be a little bit faster than the regular DVD2AVI 1.76 . http://www.kvcd.net/dvd2avis.exe
This sounds like an interesting problem for SansGrip And BTW,
where is SansGrip these days. If this could work, WOW!!! What
control you would have over Tmpgenc for bitrate and motion search.
Keep working on this Kwag, it has great possibilities

-black prince
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  #54  
04-21-2003, 07:29 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hi Kwag..

wrote..
Code:
0,I,5203121 
1,B,2000000 
2,P,3500121 
3,B,1891212 
4,B,1708765
Some quesitons..
* But, how or where would you plug in those values in TMPG ??

* or, how would TMPG use those values, if it uses ANY form of numbers
.. for any special purpose ??

* I take it that the 1st digit (before the P/B's) are the actual FRAME no's ??

* And, would this (the numbers) be fed in like "frameserved" or something,
.. or would it just be you tipicle .TXT file of some sort ??

Yes, VERY interesting in deed

Thanks,
-vhelp
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  #55  
04-21-2003, 08:07 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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@vhelp,

vhelp wrote:
Quote:
Some quesitons..
* But, how or where would you plug in those values in TMPG ??

* or, how would TMPG use those values, if it uses ANY form of numbers
.. for any special purpose ??

* I take it that the 1st digit (before the P/B's) are the actual FRAME no's ??

* And, would this (the numbers) be fed in like "frameserved" or something,
.. or would it just be you tipicle .TXT file of some sort ??
Tempgenc>Settings>GOP Structure>Force Picture Type>Settings>
Load>movie.txt (this contains frame number, p or b or I frame type and
hopefully in the future bitrate). An external program will need to be
developed to change the bitrate for each frame to force Tmpgenc
to do a better job with normailzation and motion search. The
end result will be a smaller encode and an improvement in picture
quality Some avs filters won't be needed and that increases
the encoding speed. This could be a BIG step forward to improving
KVCD even more.

-black prince
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  #56  
04-21-2003, 09:04 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi vhelp,

That code sniplet, 0,I,5203121, etc., would be the intermediate data spitted out by the modified version of DVD2AVI. This text file is then processed by another program that I still have to make, and that program would process that data and create a file in TMPEG's "Force Picture Type" format which is something like this:

Code:
0,I,BitRate=CBR:1800
1,B,BitRate=CBR:1233
2,B,BitRate=CBR:1123
3,P,BitRate=CBR:1500
Etc.

Go into TMPEG and under GOP tab, click on "Force Picture Type", and there you'll see what we're talking about

-kwag
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  #57  
04-21-2003, 10:33 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hi Kwag.. black_prince.. and guys,

Thanks for response. Hay, something's wrong w/ your FORUM Kwag..
cause I didin't get any e-mail noticifcation on any responds after my last
one !!

What's up w/ that

Anyhows.. I think I know what you're talking about (got too envolved w/
WWF.. Trish got her ahzz whipped) but I'll have another look into TMPG's
GOP tab.

@Kwag.. I had time earlier to check out your revised DVD2AVI.
Worked like a char !! ..what calculating statistics from these
numbers. Are their any uses for them in addition to ??

Code:
0,I,BitRate=CBR:1800 
1,B,BitRate=CBR:1233 
2,B,BitRate=CBR:1123 
3,P,BitRate=CBR:1500
* Does TMPG generate a silimar table of "values" during certain encodes ??
.. and/or that can be.. say.. "switched" w/ your NEW table of values he he..
.. "obviously, you're working on this, I realize, but.."

Here's what DVD2AVI+ outputed for an encodes (based on a captured source)
Thanks to good old Excel..
Code:
FRAMES   --  "B" count  --  "P" count
-------------------------------------
1725           1150           479
* I guess you'll have CBR and VBR values in this project ?

* also, are you taking into consideration that not all TMPG version are or
.. may not act alike in features. You know how THAT song goes.. w/ each
.. version tsumi (<-- spelling) makes.

-vhelp
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  #58  
04-21-2003, 11:38 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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I'm still not sure if I can set bit rate independently for each I, B and P frame. I might just write a dummy ascii file, and then load it with TMPEG's "Load" button under "Force Picture Type", and see if it follows the forced pattern I set in the ascii file. Have a lot to test

-kwag
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  #59  
04-22-2003, 07:45 AM
rhino rhino is offline
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Hey Kwag,

if you can tell me processing needs to be done with your stats file to create the appropriate tmpgenc file, i'll write a perl or php script to do this until an app is developed (i'm a *nix developer, don't have any coding packages for windows). People could either use it locally on a web server on their PC or it could be run off a few websites and people can load their stats log file into the webpage and it would spew out the appropriate tmpgenc file.

Would do in the meantime,

Cheers,
__________________
rhino
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  #60  
04-22-2003, 07:57 AM
black prince black prince is offline
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@Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Quote:
I'm still not sure if I can set bit rate independently for each I, B and P frame. I might just write a dummy ascii file, and then load it with TMPEG's "Load" button under "Force Picture Type", and see if it follows the forced pattern I set in the ascii file. Have a lot to test

-kwag
I tried this and Tmpgenc hung up my computer. My syntax for each
frame must be the problem. Next, I want to use auto-setting for a
.d2v input file and save this as text. If this works, I'm going to play
with bitrate for each frame and try to create a small .mvp file to
look at my results. I can control the frame range with source range.
If I'm lucky, I can pick scenes that could be tested (e.g. water, fire,
smoke, etc.) adjusted for bitrate. The magic is using a program to
do this auomatically

-black prince
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