Quantcast KDVD: Max Number in GOP? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
03-28-2003, 03:59 AM
syk2c11 syk2c11 is offline
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Hi there,
I understand that KDVD has a GOP structure as 1-24-2-1-18 and KVCD is 1-24-2-1-24.

Recently, I encoded a movie as 480x480 (Mpeg-2) with 1-24-2-1-24, Notch beta-1a Maxtrix, because I find 480x480 is much sharper than 352x480 (SKVCD). Anyway, I used the same video file (m2v) with an Audio stream (48Khz) and burnt it to DVD-R, it plays perfectly in my standalone DVD player. One thing to note, I used DVD Workshop to author. So, my question is that as long as the DVD authoring program accepts the Video stream with 1-24-2-1-24, will standalone DVD player play it correctly. If so, KDVD templates does not have to be set the Max number of GOP to 18 but use 24 instead. Will 24 give us more compression so that we have more space for longer movie?
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  #2  
03-28-2003, 04:25 AM
jamesp jamesp is offline
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Wow! I'll try as well and let you know. Using 24 will give more compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syk2c11
Hi there,
I understand that KDVD has a GOP structure as 1-24-2-1-18 and KVCD is 1-24-2-1-24.

Recently, I encoded a movie as 480x480 (Mpeg-2) with 1-24-2-1-24, Notch beta-1a Maxtrix, because I find 480x480 is much sharper than 352x480 (SKVCD). Anyway, I used the same video file (m2v) with an Audio stream (48Khz) and burnt it to DVD-R, it plays perfectly in my standalone DVD player. One thing to note, I used DVD Workshop to author. So, my question is that as long as the DVD authoring program accepts the Video stream with 1-24-2-1-24, will standalone DVD player play it correctly. If so, KDVD templates does not have to be set the Max number of GOP to 18 but use 24 instead. Will 24 give us more compression so that we have more space for longer movie?
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  #3  
03-28-2003, 07:29 AM
syk2c11 syk2c11 is offline
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Hi jamesp,
If you are also using 480x480, don't forget to patch it to 704x480 or 720x480 by DVD patcher. Otherwise, DVD authoring program may reject your m2v file. Waiting for you result....
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03-28-2003, 10:11 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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This is great news syk2c11
A GOP increase from 18 to 24 will indeed give much more compression. Probably the GOP size is a limitation imposed by the DVD standard, and some (most?) DVD authoring programs follow that rule. But then it doesn't mean that an MPEG file with a GOP of 24 won't play on a standalone DVD player
If this is the case, we have to make more tests with more standalone players and see if this holds true
If it does, then I'll start encoding with a GOP of 24 all my KDVDs ( And I might as well change the GOP on the template to 24 for the benefit of all )

-kwag
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  #5  
04-02-2003, 03:02 AM
syk2c11 syk2c11 is offline
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Hi there,
I have encoded 4 complete movies with 1-24-2-1-24 (KDVD, full-D1), all burnt into DVD-R, all played perfectly in 4 different standalone players. Has anyone experienced any problem so far?
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  #6  
04-02-2003, 09:10 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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I haven't had a chance to experiment with this. I would also like to know if more people have had luck with this, because if everyone can play mpegs created with a GOP of 24, I'll definitively make the change on the KDVD templates

-kwag
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  #7  
05-03-2003, 05:30 PM
Khisanth Khisanth is offline
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I've noticed that with the 18 GOP max setting, I only see 12 frames per GOP during encoding. When I set the GOP to 24, that's when I see it max at 18 frames per group.

I'm encoding from a DVD2AVI project file of a DVD.
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  #8  
05-03-2003, 05:49 PM
warpjavier warpjavier is offline
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hi all,
I tried to encode with GOP 24, but Maestro and Scenarist doesnt support GOP more than 18.
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  #9  
05-05-2003, 12:04 PM
warpjavier warpjavier is offline
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Is there a way to patch the MPEG header to tell author programs that th fila has a GOP 18 instead of 24?

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  #10  
05-05-2003, 12:15 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpjavier
Is there a way to patch the MPEG header to tell author programs that th fila has a GOP 18 instead of 24?

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I don't think you can patch the GOP size. Only the aspect, bitrate and resolution can be patched. At least that's what DVDPatcher does
I'm not sure you can specify the GOP size as a "patcheable" argument in the stream.

-kwag
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  #11  
12-07-2003, 10:51 AM
WaSaBi WaSaBi is offline
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did you try 1-24-2-1-24 or 18 on HALF D1 template?
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  #12  
12-07-2003, 11:16 AM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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Quote:
did you try 1-24-2-1-24 or 18 on HALF D1 template?
The Max GOP size is too big because the standart for NTSC is 18 max and PAL 15. But I think you know. You can burn such a movie. But have to expect some errors if you player does't support this settings.

In this GOP you don't need so much P-Frames so this gop have the sameeffekt on your Material:

"1-21-2-1-24"

Because you have max 24 frames in GOP. 1-I-Frame and 21 P-Frames and 2 B-Frames now the GOP begin from new
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  #13  
12-07-2003, 12:24 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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My friends watch out!!!

It senseful that many DVD authoring apps. do got a SAFE GOP length limit!

Because maybe the player you got on your own does play back them well, but imagine the situation you and all your friends sitting in a house different than yours and you bring your KDVDs so you and your friends could enjoy a nice video evening. And suddenly the KDVD won't play back well!
So if encoding to KDVD this is an area where we should at least maintain the standard specs as much as we can.
And ... the DVD media is getting cheaper and cheaper ... So just hang with your max GOP 15/18 and the compression is given enough to bring 2-3 Movies in a very good quality on DVD-R when encoding at 704x480(576) even including AC3 5.1 on each stream.

Maybe now you'll see the compression factor as principal but next year when DVD-R medias will go below the 1 Euro / Dollar price you'll be unhappy with your already done GOP 24 encodings
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  #14  
12-07-2003, 12:36 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Cheaper or not, many friends or not, you are supposed to have the original DVD of all KDVD you do.

Thus, wherever you want to do a movie evening, you can.

I do not understand what is the difference with what existed before, with KVCD ?
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  #15  
12-07-2003, 12:48 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Cheaper or not, many friends or not, you are supposed to have the original DVD of all KDVD you do.
Just in that case as you pointed that out adressed to me using a " " and quoting me with my "cheaper" statement. :
I do got the originals .... don't worry.
As I know you got kids too and .... you know what could happen when kids treat orig DVDs ? I do love kids and I want them to be happy when they come into my house and wanna watch some nice cartoons. But just in case ... I prefer do give them KDVDs as they are still good working backups.
Quote:

Thus, wherever you want to do a movie evening, you can.

I do not understand what is the difference with what existed before, with KVCD ?
The main difference to me is in case of a K-DVD that I can fucus a bit more on quality by still preserving a good compression
But that's only my personal opinion and I shurely do not say that for general. That's just all I wanted to say above.
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  #16  
12-07-2003, 02:24 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I do got the originals .... don't worry.
I do not worry about you. I worry for all people that often forget some essential principles
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  #17  
12-08-2003, 12:55 AM
BobNET BobNET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Cheaper or not, many friends or not, you are supposed to have the original DVD of all KDVD you do.
I've got a least 2 DVDs with cracks forming in the hub (damn locking hubs!), so you might want to rephrase that as "you are supposed to have at least the pieces of the original DVD"...
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  #18  
12-08-2003, 04:52 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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