Quantcast KVCD: does CQ Value Effect the Encoding Time? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
04-28-2003, 11:13 AM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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I was just wondering does the cq value affect the length of the outputted length of the file or file size?? I used the KVCD-CQ-352x576-_PAL_-PLUS template and the film length was 115 mins and the template is 120mins high quality template, I chose 70 as the CQ level, and the outputted m1v was 736mb, how high can I go with the cq level????
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  #2  
04-28-2003, 11:27 AM
PyRoMaNiA PyRoMaNiA is offline
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CQ affects filesize. Use ToK to predict the correct CQ value to fill the space available!
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04-28-2003, 01:50 PM
Reno Reno is offline
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I don't really think so. I've noticed encode time actually go down when CQ is raised. Maybe that's just me....
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  #4  
04-28-2003, 02:05 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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ok, just muxed the audio and vid through tmpgenc as bbmpeg closed itself when I tried to add audio or video via the way described in redm's guide, I now have a overall file size mpg of near 900mb I used the following code with the template stated in my original post and cq set to 70.

Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\fitcd\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\fitcd\fluxsmooth.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\fitcd\sampler.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\fitcd\blockbuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\fitcd\legalclip.dll")

mpeg2source("C:\DVD Movie\Batman Forever.d2v")
LegalClip()
BilinearResize(352,576)
FluxSmooth()
Blockbuster( method="noise", detail_min=1, detail_max=10, variance=.3, seed=1 )
LegalClip()
#sampler()
audio was ac3 extracted via dvd2avi converted to mp2 via headac3he, mp2 came out at 105mb m1v was 736mb. what happend?? anyone know what went wrong?
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04-28-2003, 02:23 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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hmm....I think your muxed file shoulda came out around 851MB. You're not using TMPG 2.59 are you?(it's buggy, so you shouldn't be). Also, you hafta mux kvcd's as Video-CD (non-standard) in TMPG. Maybe you muxed as standard video-cd by mistake? Although even 851MB is too large to burn to one 80min disc, so you'll still hafta split it onto 2 discs or use a 90 or 99min cdr (trimming opening and ending credits off the movie might make it fit too...bbmpeg is handy for exactly that kind of situation).

There's supposed to be a workaround to make bbmpeg work if you experience that problem you described where it closes itself. Do you run Windblows XP, and if so did you install the XP-patched .dll for bbmpeg? That might fix it for you. But if it doesn't, then you can also just click on the "Load" button and then the "Cancel" button on the main screen before clicking on the "Start Encoding" button...this should allow you to continue on and mux with bbmpeg without it closing on you. BBmpeg really is a better muxer than TMPG, so it would be best if you could get that program working for you.

Good luck,
-d&c
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  #6  
04-28-2003, 02:38 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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the file size in windows explorer it sadi 851 but in nero it had 891mb. I didn't know anything about a xp pathed dll file, where can I get it?
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04-28-2003, 03:01 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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see this thread for a link to the xp-patched .dll for bbmpeg: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3272 .

You unticked the "create standard-compliant" vcd setting box in Nero right?

-d&c
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  #8  
04-28-2003, 03:35 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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of cause I had unticked it. and cheers for the link.
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  #9  
04-28-2003, 03:55 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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well just done a successfull mux in bbmpeg only prob is I now have 2 mpg files, one 795mb and the other 68.5mb, I think the problem is when I encoded the video, maybe the cq is set too high, but if i have it set at 60 the quality becomes blocky, is it the script that makes the m1v so big? anyone suggest a better one?
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  #10  
04-28-2003, 07:57 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Hey, glad you got bbmpeg working. Just make sure to use the right settings when you mux your file though. If it came out to 851MB when TMPG muxed your audio and video together, then it should probably be about the same muxed with bbmpeg. There is a thread somewhere in the bbmpeg forum that shows a screenshot of the correct settings to use. I think all you need to do is select VCD, tick VBR, and set Forced Mux Rate to 0.

It sounds like maybe your file came out too big because you didn't use filesize prediction? If you didn't, you really need to use filesize prediction (either with Tok, or the manual way with a calculator), so that your file will turn out to be the right size to fit on your disc at the best quality possible. Otherwise, you're just going to have to play a game of hit-and-miss and keep re-encoding your movies many times with different CQ levels until you finally get lucky and find the correct CQ value to fill up or fit onto your disc. This is not a fun way to do things...it's like throwing darts with your eyes closed until you hit the bullseye.

If you did use Filesize Prediction and your file still came out too big...well, this just happens sometimes...rare, but it happens (the prediction method used here is not a perfect science, but darn close ).

Fear not...you still might be able to fit that movie onto one disc. What audio quality did you use? 128kbps, 112kbps, 160, etc??? Try using 112kbps audio if you didn't already...this will save you some space and still sound very good(if created with Headac3he)...I wouldn't drop to 96kbps unless you really have to and don't feel like re-encoding your video. Also use the "Start second" and "End second" settings in bbmpeg to trim off as much of the beginning and end credits of your movie that you can. By doing this, you might be able to trim enough megabytes off of your file so that you could fit it onto 1 disc. Also, if your burner supports overburning, you can usually overburn as much as 825MB onto an 80-minute disc (depending on what brand you're using, and how good they are...Fuji cdr's are usually very reliable for overburning up to 825mb).

I'm affraid that's all the advice I've got for you. Hopefully, you won't have to re-encode your movie.

As for your question about the script, Kwag's latest Optimal Script works great!...is that the one you used? I'm putting 2-hour movies onto 1 disc and they look great on my standard 30-inch tv (and I even have to encode @ 29.97fps instead of 23.976fps like in the kvcd templates!...so I have even less bitrate to spare than most people around here). Using the Optimal Script, I've found that I can use a CQ as low as about 54 and it still looks very good to me on my tv....but quality is subjective. You can try using some of the commented-out filters that are listed in kwag's optimal script if you're really desperate for more space, but more filters usually means less quality, so I'd avoid it if/when possible.

Cheers,
-d&c
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  #11  
04-29-2003, 01:43 AM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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no I never used file predicition as last time when I tried it it just went totally wrong and I tried tok and got lost with it, the audio is 128 and the script I used is mentioned above this one. I will give the new kwag script a go and see what happens.

Edit: tmpgenc says STMedianFilter.dll is not a valid avisynth 1.0 plugin. I have version 2.08 installed.
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  #12  
04-29-2003, 09:42 AM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andybno1
Edit: tmpgenc says STMedianFilter.dll is not a valid avisynth 1.0 plugin. I have version 2.08 installed.
2 versions of the STMedianFilter .dll are found in the zip file (and "old" one and a newer avisynth 2.5 one). Make sure you installed the "old" .dll if you're using 2.08. Also, you could make sure that there's nothing except .dlls inside of your "plugins" folder (the one within your Avisynth2 folder, if that's where you keep your .dlls). I know that sometimes when I unzip a new filter to my plugins directory, it appears there within a new folder, which screws up avisynth until you move the filter out of that new unwanted folder and delete it. Other than that, I don't know what could be causing the problem . Let us know how you get along.

-d&c
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  #13  
04-29-2003, 11:17 AM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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I'm suppose to put the filters in the avisynth plugin folder? I've had them all in the a seperate folder with fitcd program.
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04-29-2003, 01:02 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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ok the little bugger that is avisynth now says mpeg2dec is not a valid 2.5 filter.
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  #15  
04-30-2003, 12:57 AM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andybno1
I'm suppose to put the filters in the avisynth plugin folder? I've had them all in the a seperate folder with fitcd program.
No, you don't have to put your filters in the avisynth plugins folder....you can put them anywhere you like (that's why I said "if that's where you keep your .dlls" in my previous post). But by putting them into that particular folder, then you don't need to write any of the "LoadPlugin" lines at the top of your avisynth scripts because the plugins will already be automatically loaded in (this is not an issue if you use MovieStacker though since it does it for you). Personally, I like putting them in the plugins folder, but then again, I'm also still using the "old-fashioned" fully manual method to encode my kvcds (I don't use Tok or MovieStacker yet...I'm too content and lazy to learn them right now...eventually I will though, once everything's stable).

Quote:
Originally Posted by andybno1
ok the little bugger that is avisynth now says mpeg2dec is not a valid 2.5 filter.
hmm, strange if you're using 2.08...sorry, outta my league....hopefully someone else can assist. Hope you figure it all out man.

-d&c
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  #16  
04-30-2003, 11:11 AM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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I'm using 2.51 of avisynth, anyone know where I can get a newer version of mpeg2dec that works with 2.5?
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  #17  
04-30-2003, 11:11 AM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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I'm using 2.51 of avisynth, anyone know where I can get a newer version of mpeg2dec that works with 2.5?
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  #18  
04-30-2003, 02:13 PM
Racer99 Racer99 is offline
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Riddle me this:

You said you .m1v file was 736mb and you .mp2 audio file was 105. Basic math tells me that it should add to 841mb. I'm not sure what multiplexing the two files add to the total size of the file. That means you are only 10 mb off.

The thing you have to do to get the file smaller is to re-mux the audio to a lower bitrate or re-encode. What was your bitrate for your audio to achieve the 105mb file?

You also mentioned that you chose 70 as your CQ. Now realize that without CQ predicition you cannot just choose a CQ value and expect it to meet your needs of time / filesize.

How did you determine the CQ value?


RACER99
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  #19  
04-30-2003, 02:21 PM
andybno1 andybno1 is offline
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I loaded the d2v file in tok it said best cq was 60, I done a sample file and it produced a kinda fuzzy sample file, so I just upped it by 10 didn't think it would matter shows me don't it. I encoded audio to 128kp/s.
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  #20  
04-30-2003, 03:55 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andybno1
I'm using 2.51 of avisynth, anyone know where I can get a newer version of mpeg2dec that works with 2.5?
Most people around here are still using avisynth 2.08 until 2.5x becomes more stable, so I'd recommend trying that instead (especially if you're somewhat new to using avisynth and trying to figure things out). You can find the latest version by doing a search for any post by sh0dan, and following the link to his website in the tag at the bottom. Get the most up-to-date 2.08-Legacy version available there.

If for some reason you'd still prefer to use 2.5x, then I think you need to use mpeg2dec3, not mpeg2dec or mpeg2dec2. There's links at www.avisynth.org for nearly everything avisynth-related you'd ever need (aside from maybe a few filters that are scattered here and there).

Quote:
Originally Posted by andybno1
I loaded the d2v file in tok it said best cq was 60, I done a sample file and it produced a kinda fuzzy sample file...
Did you try burning the sample to a cd-rw and viewing it on your tv? Keep in mind that it's not going to look quite as good on your monitor as it will on your tv. A CQ of 60 (at least when using Kwag's latest optimal script) should still look very good, at least on regular tv's...I don't know about hdtv's though.

-d&c
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