KVCD Encode with 352x576 or 544x576, Which one is Better?

CheronAph · #1 05-01-2003, 11:28 AM

I have 2 options, to encode with 352x576 CQ 75 or 544X576 CQ 65, which one is better and why?

kwag · #2 05-01-2003, 11:40 AM

544X576 CQ 65

Because it's a much higher resolution.

-kwag

Kane · #3 05-01-2003, 11:42 AM

i would prefer the higher resolution
i made a few samples some days ago

528x576 : cq 60
352x576: cq 70
352x288: cq 80

all values predicted with ToK

the kvcd resolution gave me the absolut best result

edit: beaten by seconds

CheronAph · #4 05-01-2003, 11:42 AM

yep, and 704x576 is higher, how low can I go with CQ?

Kane · #5 05-01-2003, 11:51 AM

there´s no "limit-cq"
just try

CheronAph · #6 05-01-2003, 12:06 PM

I could encode 704x576 with CQ 46, is that worth encoding or should I just go with 544x576?

dazedconfused · #7 05-01-2003, 02:49 PM

Go with the 544x576 @ CQ65 CheronAph. It'll look great and will fit on 1 disc! The KVCDx3 template will always give you the overall best compromise between great picture quality (thanks to the high resolution), and the movie-time you can fit onto a disc.

46 would almost certainly be too low of a CQ level for use with a resolution of 704x576 (although, as Kane already said, there is no such thing as a "set-in-stone" lowest acceptable CQ level...so you should always do a sample test and see for yourself). If you want to use the 704x576 resolution, you should probably do filesize-prediction for 2 discs, and split your movie in half. Doing that, you'd be able to use a high enough CQ level that it would look great and it would be nearly indistinguishable from the original dvd (even moreso than the x3 template).

But who likes splitting their movies onto 2 discs!

-d&c

CheronAph · #8 05-01-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazed&confused

But who likes splitting their movies onto 2 discs!

-d&c

You´re right, I´ll go with the 544x576!

Jellygoose · #9 05-01-2003, 03:58 PM

With the latest script, I really love to go for 704x576...
All movies shorter than 110 min. look great for me at this res. also with 704x480/576 you can correct your overscan at the sides to at least 22 pixels left and right...

this gives you a lot of extra compression... try it out! go for the limits!

dazedconfused · #10 05-01-2003, 04:26 PM

You're fitting 110-minute movies onto 1 disc using a 704x480/576 resolution Jelly, and you still manage to get a high enough CQ value so it doesn't look cruddy or give blockiness during action scenes? WOW! I had no idea that could even be possible. I know CQ levels are arbitrary, but generally speaking, what general range does your CQ usually fall into when doing these types of encodes? I figured even 90 minutes was probably pushing the limits when using the 704x templates!

-d&c

bman · #11 05-02-2003, 04:07 AM

That's right d&c !!!
U can fit about 120 min movie on one cdr-80 and quality is good enough .
For really good quality better to use cdr-90 .
@ Charon
Lowest quality that gives best results (for me ofcourse) was cq52 with filters . Like Jelly seas - Use 3 overscan and save 24x2 pixels for frame .
And always - To get best results - TRY it

bman

jorel · #12 05-02-2003, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bman

That's right d&c !!!
U can fit about 120 min movie on one cdr-80 and quality is good enough .
For really good quality better to use cdr-90 .
@ Charon
Lowest quality that gives best results (for me ofcourse) was cq52 with filters . Like Jelly seas - Use 3 overscan and save 24x2 pixels for frame .
And always - To get best results - TRY it

bman

hey bman....

seems fantastic!

can you post the script please?

i will try on 90 minutes cd.

bman · #13 05-02-2003, 05:28 AM

Hi Jorel !
The script is simple as KWAG posted it with little tweaks :

LegalClip()
Sharpen(0.65)
BicubicResize(656, 368, 0, 0.6, 0, 0, 704,576)
STMedianFilter(10, 50, 0, 0, 10, 50)
FaeryDust()
unfilter(50,50)
mergechroma(blur( 1.58 ))
mergeluma(blur(0.3))
Convolution3D(preset="movieLQ")
AddBorders(24,104,24,104)
LegalClip()

With sharpen before resize I've got almoast no gibbs but it takes more time .
That was best for my source .
I hope It'll help u

I'm waiting to your test results
bman

CheronAph · #14 05-02-2003, 10:11 AM

The movie is quite long so CQ is not so good but I´ll see how it looks on my tv, I´ll let you know.
Have you tried this with spacedust?

Resolution (fps):704x576 (25,000 fps)
Total Frames: 174426
Total Time : 01:56:17
-------------------------------------------------------------

Audio Size: 111*630*211
Required Video Size: 700*494*091

Factor: 60,000
Desired Sample Size: 11*674*902

-------------------------------------------------------------
New Faster Prediction
-------------------------------------------------------------

Full Sample
Next CQ: 70,000. Sample Size: 16*357*369
Small Sample
Next CQ: 70,000. Sample Size: 1*391*821
Predicting...
Next CQ: 49,962. Sample Size: 11*967*895
Next CQ: 37,122. Sample Size: 10*948*965
Next CQ: 44,906. Sample Size: 11*566*241

Exit Condition: 1,000 % reached ! yahoo !
Tries : 4

Final CQ: 44,906
Total Time For Predicition: 00:23:01

Total Time (all operations): 00:23:01

Finished

CheronAph · #15 05-02-2003, 10:34 AM

This is with spacedust

Resolution (fps):704x576 (25,000 fps)
Total Frames: 174426
Total Time : 01:56:17
-------------------------------------------------------------

Audio Size: 111*630*211
Required Video Size: 700*494*091

Factor: 62,500
Desired Sample Size: 11*207*905

-------------------------------------------------------------
New Faster Prediction
-------------------------------------------------------------

Full Sample
Next CQ: 70,000. Sample Size: 14*585*154
Small Sample
Next CQ: 70,000. Sample Size: 1*210*706
Predicting...
Next CQ: 53,791. Sample Size: 11*319*250

Exit Condition: 1,000 % reached ! yahoo !
Tries : 2

Final CQ: 53,791
Total Time For Predicition: 00:15:45

Total Time (all operations): 00:15:45

Finished

Jellygoose · #16 05-02-2003, 11:16 AM

Don't substitute SpaceDust for FaeryDust or vice versa... it's another approach of filtering.

however, I usually get CQ around the 50's with this script, and it looks fantastic on my TV... try it out!

Code:

LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\unfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\gripfit_preview.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\dctfilter_YUY2.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\STMedianFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\MPEG-Tools\FitCD\VobSub.dll")

Mpeg2Source("E:\Der Anschlag\anschlag.d2v")

GripCrop(704,576, Overscan=0)

VobSub("E:\Der Anschlag\vts_02_0")

Gripsize()
# SpaceDust() # Optional - for some "not so clean" DVDs. 
STMedianFilter(10, 50, 0, 0, 10, 50) 
unfilter(40,40) 
temporalsmoother(2,1) 
mergechroma(blur(1.58)) 
mergeluma(blur(0.25)) 

GripBorders()
Letterbox(0,0,24,24)

DctFilter(1,1,1,1,1,.5,.5,0)

You also save some space using Bilinear resize instead of Bicubic... The picture still remains sharper than at a lower resolution...

jorel · #17 05-02-2003, 06:35 PM

thanks for the script bman!

"With sharpen before resize I've got almoast no gibbs .."
yeah?

good! is different,i will try...hey,
the results of CheronAph are incredible!

..

Jellygoose posted now,i see in the preview:
"Don't substitute SpaceDust ..."

let me read...

nice hints!
thanks bman,CheronAph and Jellygoose for scripts and tests!

Bchteam · #18 05-03-2003, 06:33 AM

@Jellygoose

Don't you think, that a 704x576 resolution is too much for "Der Anschlag", if you wan to fit it on one CD-R

.

I think with 704x576 you won't get an acceptable CQ for a Film which lasts almost 2 hours.

Jellygoose · #19 05-03-2003, 07:54 AM

Hi Bchteam...

For this movie I used a 99 min. CD-R!

However it would still look pretty awesome on a 80 min CD-R too!
Let me explain where I see the advantages of 704x576...

1. I can set Overscan at the sides to at least 24, on my TV I don't even get side borders when it's set to 26

2. I use Bilinear Resize instead of Bicubic or Lanczos and it's still sharper.
3. I need less sharpening (Unfilter 40,40 will do a great job)
4. I can blur a little more (lumablur 2.5 instead of 2)
5. It's needles to say that if blocks appear, those will be smaller due to the higher resolution.

Those are the advantages I see for using this, besides it's the closest resolution to the source... Well I can live well enough with 544x576, which I use for movies >105 min...
it's a matter of taste I suppose!

Bchteam · #20 05-03-2003, 08:11 AM

2.5 LumaBlur

How can you set LumaBlur to 2.5

In Moviestacker the maximum is 1.58.

And also overscan 26.The highest Value in MovieStacker is 3.

Please tell me how you are doing this