Quantcast Apex MPEG-1 VBR Audio Skips? - Page 2 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #21  
05-09-2002, 02:48 PM
el_mero_zooter el_mero_zooter is offline
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no probz with kvcd and Verbatim CDR's and CDRW's.




zTr
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  #22  
05-14-2002, 06:27 PM
TKS TKS is offline
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So if I have a 23.fps movie and remux it with BBmpeg? I have to have 3:2 pulldown option turned on in Tmpgenc in order for my Apex 1500 to work?

I ask because when i didnt turn it on BBmpeg gave me a warning that this SVCD should be either 25 fps or 29fps.

Just asking

tks
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  #23  
05-15-2002, 01:57 PM
el_mero_zooter el_mero_zooter is offline
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TK,
when remuxing with bbmpg i never check it {the 3:2 pulldown option}. Try leaving it off and burning as svcd, if you are remuxing as svcd. If it still doesnt work, try checking it and see if that helpz

ztr
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  #24  
05-19-2002, 07:53 AM
TKS TKS is offline
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Well i figured out the problem.. i just use Tmpgenc to remux it as a super video vbr.. so far so good... but ive only tried it on one movie so far.. ill keep trying..

thanks

tks
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  #25  
05-22-2002, 02:47 PM
rpoon rpoon is offline
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Kwag: Thanks for referring me to this site. When I played the clips produced by KVCD template on my APEX 1500, both the audio and video are jerky.

Based on what I read here, the solutions are to "Demul", "Re-mul" and change resolution to 352X240. Is my understanding on the solution correct?
After the conversion to 352X240, would the quality goes down?
For an APEX 1500 owner, what's the advantage of KVCD template over what NEWGEN's method posted in the VCDHelp?

Thanks for your help.
rpoon
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  #26  
05-22-2002, 06:34 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpoon
Kwag: Thanks for referring me to this site. When I played the clips produced by KVCD template on my APEX 1500, both the audio and video are jerky.

Based on what I read here, the solutions are to "Demul", "Re-mul" and change resolution to 352X240. Is my understanding on the solution correct?
After the conversion to 352X240, would the quality goes down?
For an APEX 1500 owner, what's the advantage of KVCD template over what NEWGEN's method posted in the VCDHelp?

Thanks for your help.
rpoon
The quality will be much better at 352x480 than at 352x240.
Really, it depends a lot on your TV set.
If you have a small display, you won't really see much difference.
If you have a HDTV or a large screen, the difference is huge.

As for the NEWGEN's template, I have never tested it, but after looking at the parameters AVG=1,150Kbps, MAX=1,150Kbps, and MIN=0 this basically says that the highest bit rate won't exceed 1,150Kbps.

So the quality that can be generated with this template is no more than a standard VCD. However, because it uses 2-pass VBR, yes, you can put 2+ hours on a CD-R. Also having a MIN of 0, it will be jumpy on some DVD players. It also uses Automatic VBV buffer ( 0 ) which also causes problems on some DVD players.
For example, the Panasonic RP-56 jumps at playback if you generate a video with VBV buffer=0. The Panasonic DMR-E20 does the same too.
This happens at 352x480. So maybe it'll jump on some spots at 352x240.

That's another reasons why I don't use Automatic VBV, and I use a MIN of 300 ( and for some Apex it has to be increased to 600 ) in the KVCD template, for bit rates.

I'll stick with my min=300 and max=1,450 and the optimized GOP

kwag
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  #27  
06-15-2002, 03:28 PM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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Guys, I still can't get and of Kwag x480's to work on the Apex 1500. Maybe someone could step me through it. I gotta be missing something. I encode as mpg1 with upped min bitrate to 600. Even tried using Joint Stereo in the encode. Then demux with Tmpeg and remux as SVCD in bbMpeg while unchecking "Add SVCD scan offsets" and "Align sequence headers". Then burn as an SVCD in VCDEasy. Tried multiple variations.

I'm pulling out my hair and I don't have enough as it is!!!

Thanks!!
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  #28  
06-15-2002, 10:40 PM
Mr_J Mr_J is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
Guys, I still can't get and of Kwag x480's to work on the Apex 1500. Maybe someone could step me through it. I gotta be missing something. I encode as mpg1 with upped min bitrate to 600. Even tried using Joint Stereo in the encode. Then demux with Tmpeg and remux as SVCD in bbMpeg while unchecking "Add SVCD scan offsets" and "Align sequence headers". Then burn as an SVCD in VCDEasy. Tried multiple variations.

I'm pulling out my hair and I don't have enough as it is!!!

Thanks!!
The only thing that differs from the way I do it is that I encode at 29.97fps and I use Nero to burn as SVCD. maby u could give that a try
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  #29  
06-16-2002, 03:27 AM
bman bman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
Guys, I still can't get and of Kwag x480's to work on the Apex 1500. Maybe someone could step me through it. I gotta be missing something. I encode as mpg1 with upped min bitrate to 600. Even tried using Joint Stereo in the encode. Then demux with Tmpeg and remux as SVCD in bbMpeg while unchecking "Add SVCD scan offsets" and "Align sequence headers". Then burn as an SVCD in VCDEasy. Tried multiple variations.

I'm pulling out my hair and I don't have enough as it is!!!

Thanks!!
Hi "Strerogers" !

I tryed many variations of 352x480 and 352x576 and only thing that really worked was 4:3 display with Full screen .
When tryed this res - 16:9 or 2.1:1 with Full screen(keep aspect retio) always got squased picture .
With just, Full screen , picture covers all screen.
A'm working with HU-2010 not an APPEX but as u discribe the prob looks like they have very similar spec's.

I stopped experiments with this param's and for 16:9 or 2.1:1 a'm using 352x240(28 .
If you'll succeed more than I did will be hapy to hear about .

bman
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  #30  
06-17-2002, 06:51 AM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. I can burn SVCDs with Kwag's x480 templates. I just use the 3:2 pulldown. VCDEasy adds a lot of extra data while creating the SVCD though.

I can't get a VCD (mpg1) to work on my Apex 1500 using any of Kwag's x480 templates. I get audio skipping. The 352x240 works fine though. I want a 352x480 or a 704x480 to work in mpg1 format. Some others have gotten it to work by Demux/Remux. I must be doing something wrong.
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  #31  
06-17-2002, 01:21 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. I can burn SVCDs with Kwag's x480 templates. I just use the 3:2 pulldown. VCDEasy adds a lot of extra data while creating the SVCD though.

I can't get a VCD (mpg1) to work on my Apex 1500 using any of Kwag's x480 templates. I get audio skipping. The 352x240 works fine though. I want a 352x480 or a 704x480 to work in mpg1 format. Some others have gotten it to work by Demux/Remux. I must be doing something wrong.
Hi sterogers:

Have you tried the 704x480?. I know the 352x480 skips and jumps on some Apex models. But what about the KVCDx2 as it is?

kwag
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  #32  
06-17-2002, 03:29 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. I can burn SVCDs with Kwag's x480 templates. I just use the 3:2 pulldown. VCDEasy adds a lot of extra data while creating the SVCD though.
If your encoding SVCD's, I found that VCDEasy seems to add substantial padding to the 352x480 resolutions making for larger file sizes...I found a simple trade off is to bump the resoultion to 480x480. You will get no added padding during the burn process and better quality picture...My argument here is... I might as well use the extra file size to work on the quality side of encodes. Simply....Instead of wasting those extra mb's on padding, put it to work for better picture quality...Works for me!
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  #33  
06-17-2002, 07:18 PM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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Kwag

704x480 VCD skips
352x480 VCD skips

Video sure looks good though. Somebody got it to work. My player couldn't be different.

slab

Will try 480x480 SVCD. Have done those in the past with 29.97. Didn't add much size. Haven't tried one with 3:2 pdown though.
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  #34  
06-17-2002, 07:52 PM
gll99 gll99 is offline
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In reply to this statement:
I can't get a VCD (mpg1) to work on my Apex 1500 using any of Kwag's x480 templates. I get audio skipping. The 352x240 works fine though. I want a 352x480 or a 704x480 to work in mpg1 format. Some others have gotten it to work by Demux/Remux. I must be doing something wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been said by others in various places on this forum. Some DVD players (I have 2 Apex AD600a and AD700) seem to require 29.97 framerate for mpeg1 or you get audio skips even though the video looks fine. Check the "time left to play" display on your Standalone Player. Is it accurate? That could show you the problem. My 2 players accept all kinds of variations of video /audio compression with all kinds of GOP settings etc.. but so far only if encoded at 29.97 even if the original DVD is 23.97, I have to do a pulldown(up) by saying that its 29.97 and doing a pullup. The only thing I haven't tried is the svcd trick where you fool the player into thinking its an mpeg2 by putting the mpeg1 in a mpeg2 svcd directory structure but its somewhre on my list of things to try.

I tried force film, inverse telecine, demux/remux with tmpg and bbmpeg etc.. but nothing else worked for me. Most of my tests were run with the 704x480 using 4 different DVD (my own) and I played with all the audio/video/frame options that I could find.
I even tried a variation of the DVD1 and 2 templates to create real mpeg2 but the quality didn't look much better than the kvcd at 704x480. Although my results with kwag's templates have been superior to anything I have done before I have yet to achieve the quality of the Matrix clip posted on the site.

If someone knows how to get my players to accept 23.97 framerate I would be happy to hear. Please be specific. My concern with special after the fact processes is that someone could accidently reset their file to vcd standard giving the appearance of a fix.
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  #35  
06-17-2002, 09:34 PM
slab slab is offline
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Hi sterogers,

I incorporated KWAG's templates and great work here into MPEG-2 or (KSVCD's)...Why?, because my player (Daewoo 5800) like the Apex, may not like MPEG-1 (KVCD'S) in anything other than the standard resolution of 352x240. Whereas my player loves MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) and will play any combination of resolution or bitrate...

I have spent lots of time test encoding and found no easy solution other than to encode in MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) to gain the full benefit of KWAG's(NTSC) templates, and the "Andreas" Q Matrix. Encoding with any of KWAG's templates in MPEG-2 allows me the quality, comparable file sizes, and ability to "tweak" any CQ, bitrate, Qmatrix, or aspect ratio without any worry of ..."jerky video or audio synch" problems...

I have given up testing this or that, de-muxing and remuxing, FFilm no FFilm, 23fps 29fps, IVTC, deinterlace...blah, blah.. blah..and have resigned to the fact my player does not like non-standard (352x480)...(704x480). MPEG-1. I wish I could find a viable answer to this synch problem, but it is too time consuming and not necessary since mpeg-2 gives me a very stable and exceptable solution without all the headaches! I now just spend time tweaking CQ's and bitrates to get the best file sizes and quality for my encodes..No worries about synch!


Eventhough...this is in reality, a KVCD or MPEG-1 forum, I found a useable solution for my player to take advantage of the wonderful work here, and can enjoy in the fun available to encode captures, dvd..or whatever!? I thank KWAG and all other posters for the informative input here!

So, I recommend any player's with "jerky video or audio synch problems" that can indeed play SVCD's...try MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) with the templates! Is it standard this!?..or standard that!? NO!!! but it works and I like it, and I am able to participate in this forum, with the same quality and file size of others...

How do I encorporate MPEG-2 into the templates!?...Just 2 clicks and I'm encoding with the same benefit as the KVCD'rs...See ... HERE for more info from a previous post...

If you do not have the ability to encode in MPEG-2 anymore..than just download a new version of TMPGEnc to start a new trial period.(30 days)...or buy the licenced version of TMPEGEnc plus...(this is not an endorsement or meant to be spam...It is just the engine of choice I and many others use here).

Whew!..gonna shut my piehole for now..(heheh) . Post some feedback if you feel inclined...
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  #36  
06-17-2002, 10:12 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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slab wrote:
Quote:
Is it standard this!?..or standard that!? NO!!! but it works..
You're right slab. Standards, Standards. That's why we're stuck with Microsoft
Let's innovate. If it works, that's what counts!. If it's not broken , don't fix it!.
That's how I think.

kwag
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  #37  
06-17-2002, 10:32 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Let's innovate. If it works, that's what counts!. If it's not broken , don't fix it!.
KWAG your our poster child for innovation!!!

It's a wonderful thing you've done here!!!...Thanks AGAIN!!!!
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  #38  
06-17-2002, 10:50 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slab
Quote:
Let's innovate. If it works, that's what counts!. If it's not broken , don't fix it!.
KWAG your our poster child for innovation!!!

It's a wonderful thing you've done here!!!...Thanks AGAIN!!!!
Thanks!!!!

___ ___
__ __
_ _
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  #39  
06-18-2002, 08:11 AM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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slab

I have done the 352x480 SVCD with 3:2 pulldown like you. Quality is great. I do have a problem with file size though. Latest mpg2 file was less than 780 meg and Nero and VCDEasy adds data to it to push the file size up too big to burn on a disc. Yes, I'm using overburn option. I don't have this prob with VCDs. Maybe it's the 3:2 pulldown. I will try 480x480 tonight. Someone said that works without padding.

Did your SVCDs do the same??

Thanks!!
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  #40  
06-18-2002, 09:23 AM
darkstar808 darkstar808 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
slab

I have done the 352x480 SVCD with 3:2 pulldown like you. Quality is great. I do have a problem with file size though. Latest mpg2 file was less than 780 meg and Nero and VCDEasy adds data to it to push the file size up too big to burn on a disc. Yes, I'm using overburn option. I don't have this prob with VCDs. Maybe it's the 3:2 pulldown. I will try 480x480 tonight. Someone said that works without padding.

Did your SVCDs do the same??

Thanks!!
Have you tried encoding at 23.97 then using pulldown.exe from the dvd2svcd package? This plus using bbmpeg to mux may fix your filesize problem. Just a thought...

darkstar808
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