Quantcast Apex MPEG-1 VBR Audio Skips? - Page 3 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #41  
06-18-2002, 03:04 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
slab

I have done the 352x480 SVCD with 3:2 pulldown like you. Quality is great. I do have a problem with file size though. Latest mpg2 file was less than 780 meg and Nero and VCDEasy adds data to it to push the file size up too big to burn on a disc. Yes, I'm using overburn option. I don't have this prob with VCDs. Maybe it's the 3:2 pulldown. I will try 480x480 tonight. Someone said that works without padding.
Hi sterogers,

That someone was me ...I was going to post a link, but it would just point to this page (Hint: Look at the 2nd post on this page) Anyway, here's my thoughts on why I believe 352x480 gets hammered in MPEG-2.

MPEG-2 is more restrictive in standards (the "s" word again) than MPEG-1...MPEG-1 allows us to play with different resolutions without penalty because we are allowed to encode KVCD's creations as "MPEG-1 Video-CD (non-standard)" You have no such option in MPEG-2. Since MPEG-2 standard resolution is 480x480 (VCDEasy/Nero) sees 352x480 as a problem and I believe must pad the unaligned resolution during burning...Is this true? I hav'nt a clue! Just my opinion, and I am very positive the wise and knowledgeable Guru's in here can explain better than me.

The solution I have found for me is to just encode in MPEG-2 with other than 352x480 resolutions to get the full benefit of NTSC quality and file sizes...(Pal resolutions work well on my player but does not give me the "full benefit" in file size that NTSC resolutions would)

Some great ideas were brought up in this forum and might work for your player (Note this is for (NTSC) rips...)

PAL RESOLUTIONS:
Right off the bat, try making some test runs using PAL resolutions. Just load your input Video/Audio source files into the KWAG(NTSC) templates of your liking and just change the "size" to PAL resolutions on the output "Video" tab... As long as you are using the (NTSC) templates and encoding in 23.976 but just changing the resolution, it should be fine... (caution: if you use the PAL template be sure to change the "Aspect Ratio" to NTSC, "Frame Rate" to 23.976 and the "Max GOP Frames" to 48...

Wahlaah!..You have just given KWAG something to do by creating a new "KVCD-CQ-NTSC-2-PALresolution-4-players-w/problems.mcf" template to post on his home page...slacker!(heheh)

FRAMERATES:
Or try encoding at 29fps or 30fps, that is another idea brought up in here. Also, darkstar808(see above) has another way to go...So many ways...too little time! I know it's very overwhelming and time consuming...but have fun and good luck!
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  #42  
06-18-2002, 08:12 PM
TKS TKS is offline
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Thanks Slab..

Thats a good idea... i was screwing around with the pal rez.. ill try yer idea..

tks
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  #43  
06-19-2002, 12:45 AM
darkstar808 darkstar808 is offline
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Also worthy of note, If you mux with bbmpeg for 352x480, try setting to svcd and turn the mux rate down to 0 and see if that helps.

darkstar808
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  #44  
06-19-2002, 03:25 PM
Yoda Yoda is offline
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I tried the 480x480 and sent it to VCDeasy and it still wanted to pad. Added 9 megs to a 63 meg test file. What gives?
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  #45  
06-19-2002, 10:37 PM
gvarney gvarney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slab

PAL RESOLUTIONS:
Right off the bat, try making some test runs using PAL resolutions. Just load your input Video/Audio source files into the KWAG(NTSC) templates of your liking and just change the "size" to PAL resolutions on the output "Video" tab... As long as you are using the (NTSC) templates and encoding in 23.976 but just changing the resolution, it should be fine... (caution: if you use the PAL template be sure to change the "Aspect Ratio" to NTSC, "Frame Rate" to 23.976 and the "Max GOP Frames" to 48...
OK, now we're getting somewhere. I've been fighting with these templates forever! I have an Apex 1100W that has jerky video and audio cutouts every few seconds at 23.97fps. This trick with using PAL res seems to work in my first trials. However, what does this do to the actual aspect ratio of the final KVCD?
What I'm playing with is a 353x480 capture of "The King and I" which appears to be something like maybe 2.35:1 (Cinemascope, I think) that I got off of DishNetwork. I have messed with the "video arrange" method in TMPGEnc, settled on plain old "center". I use DVD2AVI to get a d2v, then make and AVS script that does nothing but IVTC, really. I have then used VDub as frameserver to crop the black bars (heck of a time trying to get Avisynth to do it) and then encode with TMPGEnc. It looks and plays good on my 32" NTSC TV, but I'm not *certain* the aspect is right. Do I need to tweak anything *else* in TMPGEnc to make sure? Would be easier to tell with full screen, which most of my captures are, can see what's cut off, or if there is black around the edges.

So, I like what this solution seems to do, make KVCD work for me, but it seems that something else has to happen if you just change the output res from what the NTSC normally is. Or does it even matter??

Thanks,
Geoff
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  #46  
06-19-2002, 11:32 PM
TKS TKS is offline
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Yeah the initial tests of setting the ntsc templates to Pal rez has worked for me, but with 1 drawback... The screen is alot smaller.. Is there a way to increase the size of the screen? Or (as usual) am i missing something?

tks
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  #47  
06-20-2002, 12:32 AM
hc1001 hc1001 is offline
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the sound studder is only for the apex and other dvd players. the sony dvp-ns300 does not have this problem because i have a apex ad-1500 and a sony dvp-ns300. i have found that raising the fps to 29.9 will fix this problem but it also makes a larger mpeg file.....Kwag in one of ur early post on this topic u said u can de mux it with tmpg and then simple mux it with a mpeg2 svcd vbr? if i can do that y do i need bbmpeg then? has anyone used tmpg to remux the mpeg with success? or will i have to use bbmpeg?
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  #48  
06-20-2002, 02:00 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hc1001
the sound studder is only for the apex and other dvd players. the sony dvp-ns300 does not have this problem because i have a apex ad-1500 and a sony dvp-ns300. i have found that raising the fps to 29.9 will fix this problem but it also makes a larger mpeg file.....Kwag in one of ur early post on this topic u said u can de mux it with tmpg and then simple mux it with a mpeg2 svcd vbr? if i can do that y do i need bbmpeg then? has anyone used tmpg to remux the mpeg with success? or will i have to use bbmpeg?
I recall mentioning exactly that. But I haven't tested a de-mux, re-mux with TMPEG, because all my DVD players play correctly every KVCD template.

kwag
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  #49  
06-20-2002, 02:37 AM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
I tried the 480x480 and sent it to VCDeasy and it still wanted to pad. Added 9 megs to a 63 meg test file. What gives?
Hi Yoda,

Hmmmmm.....Maybe that's the total increase you would get even for a full encode...That's a standard MPEG-2 resolution, and I do not recall ever getting a final bloated file size...

I do get a very small increase with 480x480, but it always seemed like it was because of the file structure added during the burn...say 9-15mb total. Whereas the added padding I was getting for 352x480 MPEG-2 was at times up to and over 100MB!(now that's padding!)

But anyway, I checked an old MPEG-2 480x480 encode I had saved and popped it back into VCDEasy to watch the burn process. It loaded in at 794mb and final burn was 807mb's..seems to be exceptable...

Watch the log file in VCDEasy as it burns, and check for a warning that states "will add padding on the fly--Hope that's okay with you" or something like that... That one seems to be the culprit... and you will get padding!...that's the one I was seeing for the 352x480 burns...Otherwise maybe try a longer test and hope the 9mb increase you got was just the added files total...dunno?!....
Good luck!

gvarney, TKS

Glad the KWAG(NTSC) templates w/PAL resoultions are working for the APEX machines...

The aspect ratios are troublesome to me at times also. But I found fiddling with the "Centered (custom size)" can get you in the ballpark...

As always though, I'm sure there is better expertice in here that can give you the real numbers for correct adjustments....anybody?!
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  #50  
06-20-2002, 08:48 AM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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slab

Re-encoded a full movie with KVCD using 480x480 instead of 352x480. I also still used a 3:2 pulldown. Mucho padding. Just like the 352x480. Don't remember this with old 480x480 encodes in the past. Didn't use Kwag templates on them though. Don't remember if I used 3:2 pulldown or not.

I encoded a FILM DVD (Shrek) at KVCDx2 704x480 and upped the frame rate to 29.97. This was VCD, so I couldn't do pulldown. Video jumpy.

All testing done on Apex 1500. I also have an Apex 1200. I will work on that one next if anyone needs testing done on that model.
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  #51  
06-20-2002, 12:48 PM
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
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Quote:
the sound studder is only for the apex and other dvd players. the sony dvp-ns300 does not have this problem because i have a apex ad-1500 and a sony dvp-ns300. i have found that raising the fps to 29.9 will fix this problem but it also makes a larger mpeg file.....Kwag in one of ur early post on this topic u said u can de mux it with tmpg and then simple mux it with a mpeg2 svcd vbr? if i can do that y do i need bbmpeg then? has anyone used tmpg to remux the mpeg with success? or will i have to use bbmpeg?
How do you do it, I mean with the 29.9 fps? I can never get it to work. Whenever I try, lines appear around the edges of objects. I experimented using doing it with 3:2 pulldown, IVTC, etc ....... no dice.
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  #52  
06-20-2002, 04:49 PM
MariahCareyLover MariahCareyLover is offline
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YEAH!! Remuxing to SVCD worked out perfectly for the picture. It's excellent now. But the movie is 23... fps en when I remux it the audio gets out of sync. How can I prefend this??

P.S. What's that 3:2 pulldown??
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  #53  
06-20-2002, 04:50 PM
hc1001 hc1001 is offline
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timber:
well....i have encoded dvd rips that i tried to encode with the kvcd template 704 X 240 2CD with 23 fps and it studders on my apex but not my sony. so i just re encoded it again but with 29.9 fps and it works fine now i just burned 2 movies (4 disc) that all work great! no green lines or anything. every setting is on default for the kvcd template except the fps. i should also say i upgraded the firmware on my apex to region free and no macrovision. hope this helps....
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  #54  
06-20-2002, 08:20 PM
TKS TKS is offline
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hc1001:

Do you turn forcefilm off in DVD2AVI or in Tmpgenc to get it to 29 fps?

tks
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  #55  
06-21-2002, 04:57 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
I tried the 480x480 and sent it to VCDeasy and it still wanted to pad. Added 9 megs to a 63 meg test file. What gives?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
slab

Re-encoded a full movie with KVCD using 480x480 instead of 352x480. I also still used a 3:2 pulldown. Mucho padding. Just like the 352x480. Don't remember this with old 480x480 encodes in the past. Didn't use Kwag templates on them though. Don't remember if I used 3:2 pulldown or not.
Okay gang, I figured out the padding problem....

Ensure you encode with the "SYSTEM" tab in MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR) mode.
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  #56  
06-21-2002, 05:37 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi slab:

Can't you just go to the "System" tab and change it to "MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR)" after you select MPEG-2 in the "Video" tab. And then save the new template?

kwag
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  #57  
06-21-2002, 06:06 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Hi slab:

Can't you just go to the "System" tab and change it to "MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR)" after you select MPEG-2 in the "Video" tab. And then save the new template?

kwag
YIKES!...Your right! ...I could have sworn that I had tested that, and it just was'nt working right....I can't believe I was testing the same thing over and over again! .... Must be a blonde thing!!! Your way is too easy I guess!!!...That's why you get the big bucks!...

~A wise man once wrote that a good working definition of "Insanity" - is when someone keeps doing the same thing over and over again.....and remains constantly surprized when the results never vary!~

Post fixed... :
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  #58  
06-24-2002, 06:18 AM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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Got the higher resolutions working on the Apex 1500. I finally tried PAL 704x576 res. This worked on my 1500. I didn't get full screen though. I started with a 4:3 DVD source. Oh yeah, my 1500 doesn't care whether it's Joint Stereo or Dual Channel. I will tinker with this more since I don't want to screw up my ascpect ratio. I started with full screen, I want to end with full screen. File size a little larger too.

Just wanted to give some others a possible solution.

Thanks for the help, all.
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  #59  
06-24-2002, 02:27 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
Got the higher resolutions working on the Apex 1500. I finally tried PAL 704x576 res. This worked on my 1500. I didn't get full screen though. I started with a 4:3 DVD source. Oh yeah, my 1500 doesn't care whether it's Joint Stereo or Dual Channel. I will tinker with this more since I don't want to screw up my ascpect ratio. I started with full screen, I want to end with full screen. File size a little larger too.

Just wanted to give some others a possible solution.

Thanks for the help, all.
Hi sterogers:

Try to keep your audio at dual channel or stereo, if you want to keep Dolby Surround. If you use joint stereo, you'll loose surround sound.

kwag
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  #60  
06-24-2002, 02:29 PM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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I will. I just tested with Joint Stereo because some said you had to use JS to get the higher res templates to work on my Apex.

Thanks!!!

More questions soon....I'm sure.
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