Quantcast TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 Creating Large MPEG Files - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-02-2003, 09:34 AM
marex marex is offline
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Would anyone know why a file that is frameserved from VD (w no filters) and encoded in TMPGenc 2.512(No Filters) is smaller than if the file was not frameserved and is open directly in TMPGenc? I took a 2gb huffy encoded file and frameserved it from VD to TMPGenc 2.512, the resulting file was 500mb. I then took the same file and encoded it in TMPGenc 2.512 without frameserving and the resulting file was 1gb. The settings in TMPGenc were identical in both situations. Why is this?

I also tried an old version of TMPGenc (2.54) the resulting mpg file was 500mb. It seems that the new 2.512 version is creating to large of a file. Again the settings in TMPGenc were identical with the previous tests.

BTW... I'm creating an mpeg 2 file.
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  #2  
06-27-2003, 11:38 PM
cranston cranston is offline
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"I'm a newbie, and I'm OK ... I encode all night and sleep all day ..."

I'm an idiot savant newbie at that. I think. Problem is in the same league to the one above.

Computer #1: TMPGenc 2.511.51.160, DVD2AVI 1.76, SmartRipper, all the templates. XP just loaded (3 nights ago), and the software installation is totally vanilla (save Nimo's Codecs). I have a movie that MPEG-1 encodes at 1.2GB, so I find the kvcd site and give it a try (I've been making VCDs for about a year now, and I'm familiar with what needs to be done). Now I didn't frameserve (computer didn't even have VirtualDub on it), no nothing. Just downloaded the templates, popped in the DVD and WAV files, loaded the templates into TMPGenc, and started. My results were

KVCD-CQ-352x240 = 635MB
KVCD-LBR-352x240 = 540MB
KVCD-X3-MPEG-1-528x480 = 884MB

This, I think is way cool. BTW, my DVD players (Apex AD-3201 and Koss 5 CD player) both play the 635MB file with minimal problems (don't try and fast forward without a fast reverse included, or the audio gets off track).

As it turns out, that was a borrowed computer (I figured, what the hey, it's not mine -- the perfect guinea pig), and I had to return it to its rightful owner. I go to a second machine, same software lineup (save for a 4 month old XP install), and try to reenact what I just did.

*This* machine (Computer #2) doesn't seem to load the templates. Or at least when I encode (I've been running tests) I can't seem to get anything below the typical 10MB/min we've come to expect from vanilla MPEG-1. Not precisely true -- I modded the CQ-352x240 setting to make the CQ 60, and it took off about 15% of the file. So I'm thinking *some* settings are working, but I don't get nearly the results I achieved on the other computer. I'm thinking something else is porked up.

So the questions are: 1) how did the first one manage to get things right? or better yet 2) why doesn't the second one reduce size as expected?

Other mitigating (?) factors: Computer 1 had a 32MB AGP noname graphics card; Computer 2 has an ATI AIW Radeon. Might I have a rogue codec running around on computer 2 which would cause the templates not to engage the right code, and reduce the file size? FWIW, video decoders in the playback MPG file are both the same -- MPEG Video decoder.

Help would be very much appreciated. I'd just as soon be able to make things work short of running the 5 step process -- reducing a 120min movie to one VCD is quite tempting, so I don't want to give up quickly in case I have a simple problem.

Thanks,
Cran
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  #3  
06-27-2003, 11:46 PM
cranston cranston is offline
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And here's a followup. Just loaded TMPGenc 2.58, and it makes the teeny tiny files (50% or so less). Swear to God, I got the same sort of results with 2.511.51.160 on a vanilla install, but can't repeat it now. Anyone know what TMPGenc did to itself after 2.58?

cran
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  #4  
06-28-2003, 09:00 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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hy cranston,
welcome in forum!

i'm using the tmpgenc 2513 and after read you post,
i reinstall the tmpgenc 2.58.44.152 and encode a full movie
again with identical parameters.

the size don't decrease, stills the same.

did you used the same script and adjusts?
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  #5  
06-28-2003, 10:35 AM
cranston cranston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
hy cranston,
welcome in forum!

i'm using the tmpgenc 2513 and after read you post,
i reinstall the tmpgenc 2.58.44.152 and encode a full movie
again with identical parameters.

the size don't decrease, stills the same.

did you used the same script and adjusts?
I have 2.58.44.152 also, and it's what I used.

I did like I did on machine #1 a couple days ago. I loaded the d2v file from DVD2AVI, the wav file, changed the location of where I wanted the encoded file to go, loaded the CQ 352x240 template, threw in one oddball -- changed CQ to 75 (this file I was working on was only a 106 min movie, so I figured I'd have some space to play with), and voila:

vanilla MPEG-1 = 1059MB
kvcd = 688MB

Played it back this morning on the Koss 5 disc changer. Only "burbled" four times. Lost video for about 5 seconds each time (audio continued), but then it recovered and stayed in synch with the audio for the remainder of the movie.

Not bad. But I'd still like to know why.

Cran
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  #6  
06-28-2003, 01:52 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranston

Only "burbled" four times. Lost video for about 5 seconds each time (audio continued), but then it recovered and stayed in synch with the audio for the remainder of the movie.
Hi Cran,

Check if the point where it "blurbed" was a very low (dim/lit) scene. If it was, then it's your MIN bit rate. Increasing it to 600Kbps should solve the problem. If it was on a high action/speed scene, then lower your MAX bitrate maybe to 2,200Kbps.

It could also be a media problem , and burning to another CD-R would be the only way to test it. If it doesn't "blurb" at the same point, then it was the media

-kwag
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  #7  
06-28-2003, 05:28 PM
cranston cranston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by cranston

Only "burbled" four times. Lost video for about 5 seconds each time (audio continued), but then it recovered and stayed in synch with the audio for the remainder of the movie.
Hi Cran,

Check if the point where it "blurbed" was a very low (dim/lit) scene. If it was, then it's your MIN bit rate. Increasing it to 600Kbps should solve the problem. If it was on a high action/speed scene, then lower your MAX bitrate maybe to 2,200Kbps.

It could also be a media problem , and burning to another CD-R would be the only way to test it. If it doesn't "blurb" at the same point, then it was the media

-kwag
Hi Kwag. Nice little thing you got going here. Templates, are, well, awesome (so far).

As for burbling, I noted this two nights ago on another movie. I was using CDRWs then, and I found that the error is fairly random. What I mean is that it seemingly occurs -- it happens, I back up past the burble part and then it plays right thru a second time with no burble. I kinda suspected chapter entry points, but that wasn't it either. I'll see if there's anything picture wise which could cause this. It has happened both on the Koss and the Apex AD-3201.

Today's VCD was on a Taiyo Yuden CDR, burned at 8X on a 32X Lite-On. I'm not sure you can get a more reliable CDR burn combo (except to go a little slower) than that. No pixellation at all for two hours straight. Movie quality was simply outstanding.

Also, I've noticed that if I make an SVCD or an MPEG-2, I have to burn it in VCDeasy as a VCD 1.1 or 2.0. If I burn it as an SVCD, my players won't reliably play it. As a VCD 1.1/2.0, of course it looks even better than it's MPEG-1 cousin.

Now that I have you on the line, in the Advanced tab in TMPGenc, do you recommend any of those items to be either checked or unchecked? You know:

Inverse Telecine
Ghost Reduction
Noise Reduction
Sharpen Edge
Custom Color
Deinterlace
Clip Frame
3.2 Pulldown
Frame Rate Conversion

For regular MPEG-1s (not captures) I check Ghost and Sharpen Edge. For captures, I also click Noise Reduction. I also run the encoder at the slowest speed/best quality. Does any of these items make a difference with your templates?

Thanks again -- cool site

Cran
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  #8  
06-28-2003, 06:05 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranston
I was using CDRWs then, and I found that the error is fairly random. What I mean is that it seemingly occurs -- it happens, I back up past the burble part and then it plays right thru a second time with no burble.
That's it right there
That's a media issue. Try it on a regular CD-R.
Quote:

Now that I have you on the line, in the Advanced tab in TMPGenc, do you recommend any of those items to be either checked or unchecked? You know:

Inverse Telecine
Ghost Reduction
Noise Reduction
Sharpen Edge
Custom Color
Deinterlace
Clip Frame
3.2 Pulldown
Frame Rate Conversion

For regular MPEG-1s (not captures) I check Ghost and Sharpen Edge. For captures, I also click Noise Reduction. I also run the encoder at the slowest speed/best quality. Does any of these items make a difference with your templates?

Thanks again -- cool site

Cran
Drop every TMPEG filter, and use the optimal script http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3483
Out of all of those, you would only have to use 3:2 pulldown if you are encoding MPEG-2 at 23.976 targeting a SVCD or DVD.
For noise, temporal, etc,. use AviSynth filters. They are way better than TMPEG's internal filters, and they are also years ahead in speed
Try to use ToK to automate your process

-kwag
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  #9  
06-28-2003, 07:25 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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@ marex and cranston..

Maybe the reason why you guys got the difference in fielsize was because
you.. like this:

Your first vdub frameserve..
* opened your first vudb and frameserved to TMPG

Then, your second "direct" frameserve..
* you opend your "orginal" source directly into TMPG, and TMPG configured
...itself according to your "source", and as such, encoded it w/ different
...params

When you open a "source" file, be it .VDR /.AVS / .AVI / .D2V or whatever
file, you have to LOAD in your template LAST.. else TMPG will re-configure
itself to the "source" like this:
* Source first,
* Template last

For me, I'm mostly feeding TMPG a "xx.VDR" frameserve file from vdub.
I ALWAYS keep an "xx.VDR" inside TMPG's Video box. This way, when I
fire up TMPG, it always as this file and LAST KNOWN SETTINGS before
closing down. Then, when I'm ready to frameserve some more, I just
start the frame server, and press on TMPG's start button and away I go..
unless you have to use another Template of course.

-vhelp
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  #10  
07-14-2003, 07:22 AM
MissFaithVamp MissFaithVamp is offline
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Hi, Im MFV I'm a total illiterate newbie, trying to enocode an AVI (Sweet Home Alabama, 700mb) to Mpeg2 (KSVCD) and the file is going to be 4Gig in size. I followed a the guide on WeetHet. Now I know Im new but there is no way 4Gig will fit on one disc. I have been making regular vcds for about 6 - 12 months.

Im using TMPGEnc 5.13.

Any hellp most appriciated

MFV

xx
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  #11  
07-14-2003, 07:39 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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welcome in forum
MissFaithVamp


cool guides, follow the link and ask what you need in forum:
http://www.kvcd.net/e107/
see "articles" in the right of the page.

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