Quantcast KVCD: Template to Create SVCDs (MPEG-2) ? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-15-2002, 08:37 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Hi Kwag!!

I noticed that my VCDs burned with your template look just great, and most of them even better than my SVCDs burned with MPEG2.

Now My Question is, if there is a KVCD Template for MPEG2, but not for DVDRs but for CD-Rs to burn SVCDs with it.

Anyone help?
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  #2  
06-15-2002, 09:15 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Hi Kwag!!

I noticed that my VCDs burned with your template look just great, and most of them even better than my SVCDs burned with MPEG2.

Now My Question is, if there is a KVCD Template for MPEG2, but not for DVDRs but for CD-Rs to burn SVCDs with it.

Anyone help?
I suggest you take the KDVD-Half D1 template and try it. This will produce better quality than any SVCD template. If your player doesn't support 48Khz audio, change it to 44.1Khz in the template before encoding. I tried it in my JVC player burned as SVCD with VCDEasy and the result is awesome. Plus you get the added bonus that if you ever want to move your mpeg files to a DVD-R, you don't need to re-encode, because the mpeg is already DVD compliant. That is if you keep the audio at 48Khz, as it is in the template.
Try it, and let me know!

kwag
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06-15-2002, 07:25 PM
Daagar Daagar is offline
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What type of file sizes does this result in for 120min movies? If it is a tad higher than what fits on a 80min cdr, it seems that a combo of redcuing the audio to 44.1khz and 128kpbs could be tried. The reason I'm curious, is because several forums claim that mpeg2 typically 'looks better' than mpeg1. Also, those with CCE would be able to use it for faster encoding times assuming the matrix and GOP can be plugged in. Obviously, for those looking for perfect standard compatability, don't do this. But for those looking for a slight boost in encoding times, and if mpeg2 really 'looks better', this could be great.

As well, for those that are unaware, most svcd (mpeg2) streams can be played on standalone players that only support VCD by rewriting the header in TMPEnc to be a VCD stream. This doesn't actually reencode anything, just changes the header. So now you get high-quality 352x480 svcd(mpeg2) movies that act as if they were VCDs.
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06-15-2002, 08:00 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daagar
What type of file sizes does this result in for 120min movies? If it is a tad higher than what fits on a 80min cdr, it seems that a combo of redcuing the audio to 44.1khz and 128kpbs could be tried. The reason I'm curious, is because several forums claim that mpeg2 typically 'looks better' than mpeg1. Also, those with CCE would be able to use it for faster encoding times assuming the matrix and GOP can be plugged in. Obviously, for those looking for perfect standard compatability, don't do this. But for those looking for a slight boost in encoding times, and if mpeg2 really 'looks better', this could be great.

As well, for those that are unaware, most svcd (mpeg2) streams can be played on standalone players that only support VCD by rewriting the header in TMPEnc to be a VCD stream. This doesn't actually reencode anything, just changes the header. So now you get high-quality 352x480 svcd(mpeg2) movies that act as if they were VCDs.
The KDVD-Half D1 template default is already MPEG-2
You should be able to fit 1 hour+ in a 80 minute CD-R with the Half D1 template " as is". I have yet to see an MPEG-2 video below 2,000Kbps that looks better than an MPEG-1 created by TMPEG.

As for MPEG-2 looking better than MPEG-1, of course!, but only above 2,000-2,500Kbps . MPEG-2 scales very well at higher bit rates. MPEG-1 doesn't.

As for CCE's quality, above 5,000Kbps it's about the same as TMPEG. As for file size, TMPEG's will be smaller because you can change the matrix in CCE but you can't use the longer KVCD GOP's in CCE. So really the only thing you'll gain with CCE is encoding speed.

kwag
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06-15-2002, 10:11 PM
Daagar Daagar is offline
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Well, that answers most of my questions then! If mpeg2 doesn't really give better quality than the kvcd templates (at the bitrates used by your templates), then it doesn't seem necessary to go any further. Especially if the custom kwag gop can't be used. I can suffer with the longer encoding times. Thanks for the info!
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06-16-2002, 03:41 PM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Hi Kwag!

Thank's, you still help a lot.

Now If I understand you right the original KVCD Templates produce better quality than the standard SVCDs right?

Now what about changing the GOP Structure and the Matrix of an MPEG-2 Stream? Wouldn't that increase the quality and lower the file size, just like your GOP Structure increased the quality of a MPEG-1 Stream and lowered the file size?

OK I'll run a few tests with your KDVD Half D1 Template. But I just found that Template for NTSC and not for PAL... Would changing the FPS to 25 and the resolution to 352x288 make it to a PAL template?

Greetings...
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06-16-2002, 05:40 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
Hi Kwag!

Thank's, you still help a lot.

Now If I understand you right the original KVCD Templates produce better quality than the standard SVCDs right?

Now what about changing the GOP Structure and the Matrix of an MPEG-2 Stream? Wouldn't that increase the quality and lower the file size, just like your GOP Structure increased the quality of a MPEG-1 Stream and lowered the file size?

OK I'll run a few tests with your KDVD Half D1 Template. But I just found that Template for NTSC and not for PAL... Would changing the FPS to 25 and the resolution to 352x288 make it to a PAL template?

Greetings...
No. A good SVCD will look better than the original KVCD because it's got a higher bit rate. But not better than the KVCDx2 2-CD. I already changed the matrix in all templates to use same GOP and the "Andreas" Q. Matrix. Even on the KDVD FULL D1 and KDVD Half D-1 templates. Only that on the KDVD templates the max frames per GOP is 18 ( or 15 if you want to use it for PAL ), and not 48 as in all other KVCD templates. If you want to use the KDVD template for PAL, you change the fps to 25, the GOP to 1-18-3-1-15, output resolution to 720x576 (352x576 for Half D-1) and all other PAL specific parameters.

kwag
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06-16-2002, 07:22 PM
PlaiBoi PlaiBoi is offline
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Approximately how many CD's can you expect to use for a 120 min. movie that was encoded to "good" (better than kvcd) SVCD?

Is a "good" SVCD better than KVCDx2 1-CD?

Does a "good" SVCD mean, a "standard" SVCD?
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06-16-2002, 07:57 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlaiBoi
Approximately how many CD's can you expect to use for a 120 min. movie that was encoded to "good" (better than kvcd) SVCD?
3.

Quote:
Is a "good" SVCD better than KVCDx2 1-CD?
Yes and No. It depends on the source. If you have very clean un-compressed professional AVI, the KVCDx2 1-CD will look better than a SVCD because of the higher resolution.

Quote:
Does a "good" SVCD mean, a "standard" SVCD?
It two different things. A good SVCD is a SVCD that looks "good", no blocks, etc. A Standard SVCD, the way the term is defined, is a format.

kwag
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  #10  
06-16-2002, 11:12 PM
PlaiBoi PlaiBoi is offline
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Ok...thanx Kwag. Ill stick to KVCD(x2)!!
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  #11  
06-17-2002, 01:41 PM
rettysnitch rettysnitch is offline
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I recorded Kate & Leopold using the 1/2 KDVD template. The moview fit on two discs and looks really great. No visible blocks or artifacts at standard viewing distance.

This is a large widescreen movie--a 6X9--and generates a 920 MB file using the single disc KVCD 704X480 template. I have ordered some 90 min CDRs and will try one as soon as they arrive.

Thanks for the great templates Kwag.

Jim
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