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Grantman 06-24-2003 06:09 PM

KVCD Compatability CD download?
Why is the compatability CD made with a TV capture only? Is there an argument for also including native FILM source too?

Maybe it should be 12 instead of 6 tests.

The reason I mention this is because I have been having trouble getting FILM output to play on a Shinsonic DVD player. 29.97 plays much easier.

Also... why no 480x480 test? That is the basic resolution for an SVCD which is a standard. It is also a nice drop down from 528 if you want to keep resolution and reduce size a bit. (352 starts to look a bit more blury on some sources for me).

Just curious.


kwag 06-24-2003 06:30 PM

Hi Grantman,

I selected 352x480 because it's more compatible that 480x480. There are far more players that play VCDs than SVCD. Also 352x480 is a standard DVD resolution, but 480x480 is not. And because of that, the majority of DVD/VCD players will play 352x480 just fine :)
As for the material, I encoded the capture and processed IVCT to encode at 23.976, which is how most DVDs are encoded. So 99% of the times, we encode at either 23.976 (NTSC) or 25fps (PAL). Only on some players, the frame rate must be specifically encoded at 29.97fps, or if the source is just plain 29.97fps and was not originally shot FILM.


dazedconfused 06-24-2003 07:45 PM

Kwag, I know there's enough on your plate right now :roll: (revising file-prediction, etc), but just thought I'd kick in a few ideas here for future reference:

Perhaps the Version 3.0 of the KVCD Compatibility Test CD (when that time arrives) could come in 2 flavors: one using the "standard" KVCD templates as they are (like the current 2.0 cd), and another "modified" disc which includes a 480x480 and 544x480 clip, as well as a clip using a 29.97fps framerate (for ntsc material). When people have troubles with the x3 template or complain about jumpy/skippy playback, that is where the "modified" Test CD would come into play. It might also be worthwhile to include a clip muxed with 48khz audio so people can see whether this will play properly on their player or not (48khz does sound better afterall, so if they're not concerned at all about compatibility with other players, then it'd be both faster to encode from an AC3 source without the 44.1 downsampling and better-sounding to use 48khz if it works for them...perhaps a compatibility warning would be in order on the download page).

I don't know if there's truly a need for this or not since most people trying out KVCDs (a more "adventurous" crowd I'd say :wink: ) would be experienced enough to do these tests on their own, but I figured it might make things easier for the newbies to who experience problems with standard kvcds. I know I had to experiment back when I first started out here until I figured out that my dvd player needed to use 544x480 rez for x3 to work and needed 29.97fps for any rez higher than 352x240 (I can also use 48khz audio on all templates with no problems...I guess my player is a strange little creature! :lol: ).

Anyways, some noobs who aren't as persistent/stubborn/etc as I was might not bother to do any further testing past the Test CD....they might just give up on kvcd or on a certain template that doesn't play right. Yes, it'd be their own loss and fault for being so easily discouraged or maybe for not having the know-how to do this testing on their own...but the way I see it, the more people who come to and see the great results and figure out how to start using it on their players, the better, right? It's always nice to add a few more minds to the collective.

Just food for thought.

kwag 06-24-2003 07:58 PM

Hi d&c,

Yes you're right :)
And maybe it can go all on just one CD :!:
Just different menus and stuff describing what's going to play.
But as you said, my plate is full until this bizarre file prediction is stable again :roll:


jorel 06-24-2003 08:46 PM

great ideas from you all :!:

this will be the first pass for newbys
and the better direction to the results.
everybody can encode what his player suport without mistakes.


Grantman 06-24-2003 11:02 PM


Those Seinfeld clips are encoded at 23.97? That means Seinfeld is shot FILM and then telecined for broadcast?

Selfish question here... is there a list of TV programs that are shot FILM? I have been figuring that most TV shows were probablly 29.97 source. It is GREAT news if most are actually FILM and telecined.

More quality....

I wish there was a better method of deciding if a capture was interlaced or telecined.

Many sources do now show interlace lines in VirtualDub very clearly. (Maybe MPEG VCR can help. It looks like it more accurately shows interlace lines??)

Any ideas?


Grantman 06-24-2003 11:03 PM

I understand your comments about 480 vs. 352 or 528.

I guess I figued any player that supports SVCD might be more likely to play 480.

But since it is not an official VCD or DVD resolution it makes sense it is just out of spec for some players.

Thanks for the info.


kwag 06-24-2003 11:13 PM

Re: 23.97?

Originally Posted by Grantman

Those Seinfeld clips are encoded at 23.97? That means Seinfeld is shot FILM and then telecined for broadcast?

I guess so, because I IVTC'ed them, and they look perfect, with no jumps, etc :)

Selfish question here... is there a list of TV programs that are shot FILM?
I wish :)
We have to find out the hard way :!:, usually loading the mpeg in vdub, and moving frame by frame to find out :!:


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