Vhelp:
I sent a pm to you, regarding this topic, a couple of hours ago, but am not sure if it went out. Did you receive it?

Totonho03

hi tots..

A couple of headaches ago, did you say .. nah, didn't get

I'm not giving up just yet. Still working on the fomrmulas. I found some
thing interesting w/ Razor's formula, and comparing w/ vcdhelps. They
are both accurate, but one of them is missing something. And, I think it
may be ME hehe.. I'm getting their, but I'm not sure I'll ever reach it
if that 782.79 doesn't change to 800 !!

Oh, did I say I have a swelling headache ??

Thanks for your assist tots, however my PM is empty (no new junk mail, hehe)

ooh, dinner time for me.. rice and beans - peeuuu!
-vhelp

Vhelp:
I am glad to hear that you are not giving up. I do not know why you did not receive the pm, ...."only the shadow knows...........", but knowing that you are still working on it is very re-assurant. Nevertheless, I will send you a small one this tme.

Totonho03 (aka tots )

@ all (or Kwag) ...


With respect to this post, please see the latest PIC at top of this page
(assuming page 2) for the latest debugging values (note the grayed
readouts) The latest app is v0.0.5 (beta) - - - thanks !!

I'm back. Looks like I may be on to something. Also, that I may have blown
all this nonsense w/ the actual aveBitrate calc after all.

Here's what I did...
* I D/L'ed latest version of MS, and installed it.
* I imediately opend my VFAPI converted .d2v to a psuedo .avi in MS
* There is where I started to notice a few things. Member my "padding" claim ???

Anyways, it looks like MS is doing other things behind the seems and the final
result is whatever MS is doing, "calculation" wise, it's causing or throwing off
the ave bitrate. Maybe it not "throwing off" to say, but that, w/ all the
features it's incorporating, who knows what it's spiting out 100% 'ly speaking.

Anyways, here is what I noticed already. Using my movie, "Dogma" I looked to
the audio bitrate and set it to 112k as in my VCALC, matching everything I could.

Then, I had a look at the audio MB in MS.
* MS is reporting 103.93mb
* VCALC is reporting 105mb.

A difference of 1.9%

Also, my bitrate was for this movie was (see above pic, top of page 2,
v0.0.5 (beta) ) and note the difference!! Not as much as before, I think

So, what is MS doing to my audio - calculationlly speaking ??
It would seem that MS is throwing something into the Audio calculation.

Otherwise, maybe I should be setting up MS accordinly. I might have missed
something in MS. This is my first time using it (even if it just for testing
debuggin purposes)

Does anyone have any good suggestions to setting up MS, if all I'm doing is
opening up an VFAPI source file and ONLY verifity:
* audio bitrate (MB)
* average bitrate

Thanks in advance!
-vhelp

Hi all again..

Addtional notes to 5th paragrah of previous post...

Also, it would seem that not all or not every source brought into MS would
result in the same readouts ie, ave bitrate and audio MB size. Perhaps
it would depend upon the user making any settings. There doesn't seem
to be any default, as one user makes a change ro anythikng (even if by
mistake, it could result in future misreading and that could cause issues
as in my case for instance.
So, when a user uses VCALC, he/she will only get the true actaul readout
of what a ave bitrate truely is, because it's not being tainted by ANY factors
as in MS. Not saying that MS is in error, but rather sort of missleadng to
some degree. VCALC is not tainting values. ie, the audio MB size is not
being tainted or mulested in any way. So, the audio calculation is prestine.
As to other variables, I can't say what next, w/ respect to throwing off the
ave bitrate values in MS, but as far as VCALC is concirned (myself) the
functions are acting properly (as far as I can tell)

Sorry, my head is spinning -
-vhelp

EDIT: - - sorry, ben a change already.. read prev post. I made
change to 105mb vs. 98mb was suppose to be 105mb for VCALC!!
and 103.93mb for MS.

vhelp:
One question, and perhaps this is showing mi lack of experience regarding these programs, but have you compare the the size of your head3ac output file to MS's? When setting MS, shouldn't we use the same bit rate used at heac3ac? In other word, if I use say 160 with head3ac, shoud I manually change this number in moviestacker? This may be comparing apples and oranges, but couldn't help my curiosity....

Thanks

Totonho03

hi totonho03..

sorry for not getting back to ya. I was fluxing mulitple posts, and correcting
them as I fluxed them hehe - did make my head spin for a bit..

All is fixed now w/ posts. So, please re-read my last few above

Na, I don't think so.

MS has the option for users to change their audio bitrate ie, 112 or 128 etc.
Same for Movie length in minutes. And, as you change them, you also
change the "ave bitrate". I played around with this one a bit.

There are some thing going on w/ MS, and probably for the better.. if you
think about it - I think

MS was showing 104mb (103.93mb) and VCALC was showing 105mb. Even
though final ave bitrate for both were minmally different, its enough to
throw off things.. like, predictuion we all know how sensitive it can be,
as well as hair-pulling. BUT, as long as we know what other apps are doing
w/ our calculations ie, MS vs. VCALC then we can syncrunise or factor them
into the final results obtained ie, ave bitrate from MS vs. VCALC.

I know that the above sounds a little bit crazy, but after spending the whole
day on this, I feel like a pro. I just coudn't give it up.. those that know me
for my stubberness.

So, now that we know that MS taints (w/ respect to benefiting) we can still
use the bitrate given in VCALC ??
I think so !!

But, to be safe, we should really have a look at what MS is really doing w/
your source, and examine how it is arriving at a final ave bitrate

Never the less !! I'm feeling much better now.. and can maybe realease
an long awaited updated version ?? Maybe not hehe..

-vhelp

Hmmm.....

There is one other thing to considere also, when dealing w/ results obtain
by MS vs. VCALC vs. any other "ave bitrate" onbtainer ..

Assuming that MS is THE final guaging tool of choice..
If a user uses any app, including VCALC to check for ave bitrate, and then
goes to check MS's results, do bare in mind that MS is going to be the one
the shows what might actually come out, assuming that your source is
musassged in MS, and MS changes or guggles some things around, like
numbers and stuff.

But, what makes me wonder, is who's telling the true. Is MS, after messaging
the source, does the final result (encoding) truely reflect of of MS's messagings ??
OR, after performing a ave bitrate for BOTH apps (or any other for that
matter) result in a final result (encoding) that will refelct based off of the
calc that does NOT do anything to the final ave bitrate result
.
.
This is something we have to think about. I think I've only discoverd it,
cause I started my own calculator and stubmled accross obtsticles.

I don't know.. maybe there is a default in MS, where NOTHING is changed,
and the final results would match any other bitrate calculator.

Ok, besides vcdhelper's, is their any other bitrate calculator that does the
same thing - not 100mb in size to D/L ??
I'd like to try a few to see how they compare

-vhelp

Update.. v0.0.5

@ all..
After taring through countless documents on bitrate and things, I've come
up w/ an alternative or bandaid to the MS readout delima.

I've managed to incorporate a scaling factor algorithem for obtaining as
close a match to MS's final readout of ave bitrate. Unfortunately, the Lower
you go, the further (though small) the values turn on each other. Likewise,
the Higher as well. I only done short tests of this. So, you may experience
differences, pending upon your source.

So, weather you go by MS as a guage or not, the choice is yours, in VCALC.

There are bound to be errors or other bugs surfacing. I'll deal w/ them as
they come

Enjoy,
- vhelp

hi vhelp,

glad you didn't give up on it. I downloaded ver. 5 beta and it seems that the bitrate is still too low. MovieStacker will pad the bitrate if you have the SVCD scan offsets and seq. header aligning boxes checked so make sure they're unchecked. Also did you make sure that you convert the cd size (mb) to KB { i.e.- cd 800mb = 819,200 KB } in your formula?

example:

cd size = 800 mb ; audio kbits = 128 kbps ; length seconds = 7200 (2 hrs)

(cd size KB - (audio KB * length seconds ) ) / length seconds = avg bitrate

(819,200 KB - (16 KB * 7200 seconds) ) / 7200 seconds = avg bitrate

(819,200 KB - 115,200 KB) / 7200 seconds = avg bitrate

704,000 KB / 7200 seconds = avg bitrate

97.78 KB = 782.24 kbps avg bitrate

What is kb for 700mb?

Also, vhelp, don't forget us maverick KDVD to CDVD folks. I really need a CQ prediction for sizing output, both for CD's and DVD's! Your efforts are very appreciated.

Thanks guys, for the support

@ Ren....
I'll have a re-look at your suggestion to be sure. But, I'm pretty sure that
I am converting properly. However, that CD example cought me off
guarg

--> (800 * 1024) = 819,200mb

But, I think I have it correct anyways.. I'll look again.

@ nicksteel..
Thanks too.. for da support.

>> What is kb for 700mb ?

Ans: given the formula above, (700 * 1024) = 716,800mb

Sorry pal.. no comprenday

>> KDVD to CDVD faults ??
.
.
. . and >> CQ prediction for sizing output, both for CD's and DVD's!

I'm not sure what you mean Please enlighten me, thanks.

Also, don't forget, that CQMatic will be comming w/ a calc built-in soon.

What I'm offering w/ VCALC, is an alternative to other calcs and things, and
also for other external reasons - if that made any sense
Yes, also, becuase there may be features in my calc app, that others do
not have. ..another good reason for an external calc app

@ Jorel..
I hope you got VCALC working now !!

Thanks all, and have a great evening,
-vhelp

hay Ren..

you're right !!

[ ] seq. header aligning and [ ] SVCD scan offsets

left unchecked made MS's ave bitrate go from 744, down to 729.
That is much closer to VCALC's 733.87 !!

But, that was for a MUX setting for bbMPEG VCD MPEG-1

Anyways..
-vhelp

vhelp my friend....help me.

i got the same with the new 005.
i know that is something miss in my system but don't
know "what" is wrong.
don't know what to do.

@ Jorel.. my friend ..

I'm stumped !!

I've change "most" of the control fields to Reals (delphi talk) that now
accepts decimals (though I still prefer you NOT to use them [once you get
vcalc working] for anything)

Now, I'm busy working on another update version. In my confusion and
frustration of MS vs. VCALC final "ave bitrate" I lost some coding I was
working on, in version v0.0.4, ..deleted it somehow - - too many cut/paste
things were going on I had to re-invent the wheel (via coding) to get it
all back. Funny how I didn't notice it gone in v0.0.4 though

Note 1 - I have it working on my 2nd pc. And, all it function positive (no negatives)

Note 2 - I also brought a copy w/ me to work, NT stations. And, it too, is
working flowlessly. No function negatives going on their either.

So, currently, the OS that I am aware of, that VCALC works under are:

* Windows 98 (Gold/Orginal)
* Window NT
* Rendalunit's Windows XP
* Kwag's ???

The only thing I can think of thats causing you issues, is the Borland files.
* Where did you copy ALL the files to ??
* Did you copy all, to your VCALC folder
* Did you copy all, to your \system folder (or \system32)
* Note, if my other app, SLIM-G stopped working, then it's a sure bet that
...something gone amis w/ the Borland files. BUT, if SLIM-G IS working,
...then you got something going on, that I cannot figure out from my POV.

:banghead: Come on.. surely you can get it to work !!

1 - Maybe, if you have another pc, you could try it on that one.
2 - Also, please visit a friends pc, to see if it works.

I sure DO hope you get it working !!
-vhelp

Windows XP - it runs fine

Thanks Ren..

Glad to hear it!!
-vhelp

my dear vhelp (and friendal too)
you wrote:
"(though I still prefer you NOT to use them [once you get
vcalc working] for anything"

for the 4th time i repeat,
i don't enter any decimals in the prog(don't put anything),
they shows from nowhere.

when i double click to run i got the advice and after i click "ok" twice
the program run without any number in the brown window..
(don't know the right name of this place where are the yellow numbers)
i download the borland files again and put in the windows system
folder and in the Vcalc folder too(i unrar the files,of course).
every moviment that i try in the prog the advice back again!
i know that something is wrong or miss in my system,not in Vcalc.
i have the same borland files in
the SLIM-G folder and it's working.

than again i write,don't know what´s wrong and
everything that i post here is the same that i posted before!
don't work and is not Vcalc,is something in my system 98 se
and it's the only prog that don't work....don't know what's wrong.


your really lost friend


....
if you want i can send some pictures to your mail.

Hi Jorel,

Sorry, I forgot to mention/ask..

I recall you mentioning that you have 50 MB web space...
..but that you didn't know how to setup to post your issues (ie, pics/files)

First, if you can post some screen shots of your issue, that would be most
helpful

But, if you cannot, because you don't know how to, PM me, and I'll see if
I can "guide" you to a setup.

Then, the only TWO apps you'll need are:
* an FTPs (I would prefer you to use what I use "exactly", WS_FTP95 LE
* Paintshopt pro - - for the pic

HOW TO...
* to copy your "current" app, you Alt_PrintScreen (will copy to your clipboard)
* then, in painshop pro, you Paste
* then, you save as .jpg for smallest** files.

** note, I prefer .jpg vs. .png (why, because .png files don't always behave,
and will load another graphics app or browser or something, and just take
up too much resources and things)

I do hope you know how to U/L files though, cause it would be a bugger, if
I have to train "guide" you hehe

-vhelp

wow thanks for that too vhelp.
i install everything later(doing tests now with CQMatic)
and i pm to you.
your help will be fantastic my friend.
i need this 50mb space but nothing is there cos i'm stup.
when i was in school,my teachers ever say:
you can do hard things,
but turn the simple things too complicated.

it means.....i'm mad?





thanks vhelp!