Quantcast KVCD Problems - Changing the Framerate, and Others... - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
07-28-2003, 09:23 AM
D Rated D Rated is offline
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It seems for the past week all I have been doing is making coasters. I've made one or two successful KVCDs, however the samples I am encoding from my latest two AVI files are coming out the same, the audio drops out in random places and the video isn't fluid, that is to say it sometimes speeds up or slows down. This only happens on my standalone player, it looks fine on PC using WMP.

I've tried the following, all with no success:

* Changing the framerate - I've tried converting to 25 or to 29.97, since the files that I am having trouble with are both 23.976. No luck.

* Changing the min and max bitrates - I was using 300 and 2500 as the min and max. Then I upped the min to 700 after reading that some players can't handle the low bitrates. And I just recently read a post by Kwag that states you should use 2000 as the max and (average bitrate * .57) as the min. I've tried all of these with no luck.

* Changing the audio settings - I've converted my WAV to MP2 using 'surround' or 'surround2', 48000 or 41000, different bitrates also. No change.

* Changing the setting on my standalone player (Philips 724) - Have changed audio settings, video settings, nothing seems to work. I can still play a couple successfully encoded KVCDs without a problem, and with the same settings I will still get errors on my latest encodes.

The process I use to encode is always the same, taken straight from the guides here. Extract the audio, convert to MP2. Use the Avisynth 2.08 optimal script, changing only the GripCrop and AVISource parameters. Use ToK to encode, then mux with bbMPEG.

After banging my head against the wall for a while, I figured I'd start from the top and I downloaded the samples that Kwag has posted. My standalone player won't play the 528 x 480 resolution, so I won't go further with that. However, the two hbo-cap files show the differences in what works and what doesn't. The 'hbo-cap.mpg' file (the action scene with the car driving) plays flawlessly, it looks great. However, the 'hbo-cap2.mpg' file (the restaurant conversation scene) exhibits the problems, the audio cuts out every few seconds, and the video speeds up on occasion. The only differece I noticed in the files was the framerate, which is why at first I thought it could be an issue. However I went back and looked at some old source files and determined that I have successfully encoded a KVCD at 23.976, so I don't think that is an issue.

@Kwag, do you remember any differences in the way you encoded the two files? Were the scripts the same, etc?

Does anyone else have any suggestions? Could it possibly be a codec issue? Gspot tells me I have 2 compatible codecs installed for my AVI files, but I do remember getting a newer version of the XVID codec some time ago. However I doubt this is the issue, because it happens on the sample that Kwag has posted.

Would anyone be willing to post some samples that I can burn and try on my standalone (Maybe a 10 second clip of an encoded MPEG)? Maybe it's my player that doesn't like it, although I have the Philips 724, and from all the reviews I have read on vcdhelp.com it will play anything you throw at it, which is why I got it in the first place.

I appreciate any help anyone can offer. Hopefully with the forum's help I can get back to encoding great quality KVCDs.
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  #2  
07-28-2003, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rated
Use the Avisynth 2.08 optimal script, changing only the GripCrop and AVISource parameters.
Can I see that script with the changes? I wish I could help but I have yet to shed my newb status.
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07-28-2003, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rated

@Kwag, do you remember any differences in the way you encoded the two files? Were the scripts the same, etc?
I believe the HBO car scene was encoded 29.97fps, and the restaurant scene was encoded 23.976.
So it means your player is choking on 23.976fps playback.
To obtain better quality that encoding MPEG-1 at 29.97fps, you can encode MPEG-2 at 23.976fps with 3:2 pulldown. Then you should have no problems on your standalone

-kwag
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07-28-2003, 04:06 PM
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@Kwag,

That is what I thought at first too. I even started a thread asking for an easy way to convert 23.976 to 29.97.

However, I went back and took a 3 minute sample from Animatrix which is 23.976. Encoding it now I get the same thing. However to confuse matters even more I successfully encoded Animatrix at 23.976 about 3 weeks back with no issues.

So I don't know if something has changed in my system (new codecs, applications, etc). I don't think it's the player because I still have that KVCD of Animatrix at 23.976 and can play it currently with no trouble.

Thanks for all your help. This is d@mn frustrating, but with all the knowledge here I'm sure we can figure out what is going on.
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07-28-2003, 10:32 PM
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Stupid me . . .

I burned the compatability image the Kwag created, and what do you know, but not all templates work. On the Philips 724, these work:

kvcd-ulbr
kvcd-lbr
kvcd-352x240 PLUS

and these do not:

kvcd-352x480 PLUS
kvcd-704x480 PLUS
kvcdx3 528x480

I only thought about it after realizing that my old Animatrix encode was at 352 x 240, and the current template I was trying to use was 352 x 480.

So, more questions, as now I'm just basically looking for better quality:

At 352x240, what is the optimal script? Is it still the one Kwag has posted. Should I add blockbuster or anything else?

Also, should I upgrade to Avisynth 2.5? I'm currently on 2.08, but will upgrading produce better results?

Is it worth it to look into SKVCD? I think I remember Kwag saying that at the low bitrates it will look worse. What if I split the movie over 2 CDs?

Any other suggestions to improve quality? The sample encode that worked correctly was at only CQ of 60, and I know that I'll probably get around 70 when I actually do full prediction and full encode. Will that make a world of difference?

Thanks for everyone's help. These forums are great.
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07-28-2003, 11:22 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Rated

At 352x240, what is the optimal script? Is it still the one Kwag has posted. Should I add blockbuster or anything else?
Hi D Rated,

Yes. For 352x240, you can use Blockbuster, but change your encoding to CQ_VBR. It will provide better quality than CQ at that resolution.
Quote:

Also, should I upgrade to Avisynth 2.5? I'm currently on 2.08, but will upgrading produce better results?
You bet
Quote:

Is it worth it to look into SKVCD? I think I remember Kwag saying that at the low bitrates it will look worse. What if I split the movie over 2 CDs?
For 2 CDs, you'll have wonderful quality
Quote:

Any other suggestions to improve quality? The sample encode that worked correctly was at only CQ of 60, and I know that I'll probably get around 70 when I actually do full prediction and full encode. Will that make a world of difference?
From 60 to 70, it makes a hell of a difference. But if you use CQ_VBR, the scale is completely different, and your values will be between 20 to 30. Just remember that

-kwag
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07-29-2003, 07:18 AM
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OK Kwag, I'm an idiot.

I've upgraded to Avisynth 2.5 with no problems, took the optimal script for clean material from the optimal script post, and loaded it with no problems. Now, since I'm using 2.5, do I even need to bother with Blockbuster?

And also, should I always use CQ_VBR with the lower resolution I have to use (352 x 240)? Or do I only use it when using Blockbuster? Does ToK support CQ_VBR when doing prediction and encoding?

Thanks for all your help.
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  #8  
07-29-2003, 09:11 AM
incognito incognito is offline
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I'm learning alot just following this thread.

@ D Rated

Are you converting avis with that script? Can I see the avs when you have it optimized? We have similar DVD players.

Also what does lbr and ulbr stand for?
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07-29-2003, 09:28 AM
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@incognito:

LBR = stands for low bit rate, designed for small TVs, and portable players.

ULBR = Ultra low bit rate???

Yes, I'm converting XVID AVIs. I can post the current script when I get home for lunch, but I have changed nothing so far from the 2.5 optimal script (except for the AVIsource and GripCrop parameters, obviously). However I will keep playing with it.

I still am looking into the option of converting 23 FPS to 29 FPS, because at 29 the 352 x 480 plays in my player, and looks MUCH better. I'm also looking at SKVCD as well.
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07-29-2003, 10:18 AM
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So you changed the line:
Code:
Mpeg2Source("Your_D2V_Source_Here")
To:
Code:
AVISource("Your_AVI_Source_Here")
If I'm doing 352x240 my GripCrop would be:
Code:
GripCrop(352, 240, overscan=1, source_anamorphic=false)
If I'm starting to understand how this all works.

Where do I get the values for this line?
Code:
#LetterBox( Your_Values_Here ) # Depends on situation. Use MovieStacker!
And if I use that line I would take off the # right? I don't mean to distract from the topic. If you wanted to PM me and delete this post I understand.
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  #11  
07-29-2003, 10:29 AM
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If you are using a D2V file (DVD2SVD) as your source then you use:

Code:
Mpeg2Source("Your_D2V_Source_Here")
If you are using an AVI file as your source (which I think you are) then you use:

Code:
AVISource("Your_AVI_Source_Here")
You can use MovieStacker to generate your GripCrop line (this is how I do it), however the line you poseted is exactly as mine, except I don't have the overscan parameter.

And currently I leave the LetterBox line commented out, like it is in the script. I haven't ever used it so I can't comment on where to get the values, although I guess it's somewhere in MovieStacker.
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