Quantcast Bitrates: KDVD Bitrates with CQmatic - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
08-05-2003, 01:52 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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I'm using CQMatic for the KDVD template to be muxed as DVD with BBMPEG. Selecting 700MB(@ 1000) output in BBMPEG creates 716MB(@ 1024) output file, which is a full 700MB CD. This is different than the 800+MB output allowed by SVCD mux with BBMPEG.

I am trying to determine the average bitrate for CQMatic to support creation of 2 700MB output files from a DVD mux with BBMPEG.

When I use vcalc, Bearson and MovieStacker, I get different average bitrate values, all of which seem to support SVCD muxing. MovieStacker does not support DVD or 1400MB output.

As I can't determine the averagebitrate with the above programs, I am using a formula Kwag kindly furnished me:

Output=( AverageBitrate/8 )*60*minutes.

Is this the only method I can use, or should I be using a value other than 1400MB as my output size, or should I tweak something else?

1400-93(mp2 size)=( x/8 )*60*99(minutes)
AverageBitrate =1760
MinimumBiterate= 1760*.57=1003

In summation: Exactly how should I determine the AverageBitrate for KDVD output to be used with CQMatic?
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  #2  
08-05-2003, 02:24 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi nicksteel,

The formula above should be accurate, but you have to subtract ~20MB ( ~20,480KB ) for DVD authoring overhead from your final file size.

-kwag
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  #3  
08-05-2003, 02:51 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Hi nicksteel,

The formula above should be accurate, but you have to subtract ~20MB ( ~20,480KB ) for DVD authoring overhead from your final file size.

-kwag
Thanks as always, Kwag.

I'll test tonight as:

1400-93(mp2 size)-20=( x/8 )*60*99(minutes)
AverageBitrate =1735
MinimumBiterate= 1735*.57=989

I assume the formulas used for SVCD AverageBitrate calculation programs will not work for DVD. Will CQMatic handle this difference in the AverageBitrate routine you are going to include?

None of the bitrate calculators I have tried give the formula's results, but the formula does seem to predict pretty well. I assume that SVCD AverageBitrate is different than DVD AverageBitrate, as DVD muxing at 700MB filesize fills a disk at 715MB rather that the 830MB of a SVCD mux.
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  #4  
08-06-2003, 07:29 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Hi nicksteel,

The formula above should be accurate, but you have to subtract ~20MB ( ~20,480KB ) for DVD authoring overhead from your final file size.

-kwag
Thanks as always, Kwag.

I'll test tonight as:

1400-93(mp2 size)-20=( x/8 )*60*99(minutes)
1287 = AverageBitrate =1733
MinimumBiterate= 1733*.57=988
Results:

M2V size 1360503
DVD files muxed by BBMPEG @ 700 out:
715620
715640
83000

Should padding be enabled in TMPGEnc?
How should I tweak formula to fit DVD rather than SVCD output?
Do I need to rerun with Interlaced Source checked on CQMatic using the following avs?


http://www.kvcd.net
CQMatic Version 1.1.01
Copyright Softronex Corporation, 2003.
All rights reserved.
Time: 19:36:34 Date: 08/05/2003
Ready!
Project: H:\sol\sol20.tpr

Creating: CQMatic.tpr

H:\sol\sol20.m2v
Execute.
Movie Time: 99
Average Bitrate: 1733
Full Encode mode
Executing Prediction Phase...
Process started at 19:37:23
On 08/05/2003
CQ set for prediction
Setting up initial sampling.
Using CQ of 60.00
Prediction cycle #1
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.23 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 1.305032
Low fence: 60.000000
High fence: 90.000000
Last CQ = 60.00
Current CQ = 78.30
CQ difference = 18.301933
Using CQ of 78.30
Prediction cycle #2
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.08 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 1.154955
Low fence: 78.301933
High fence: 90.000000
Last CQ = 78.30
Current CQ = 90.00
CQ difference = 11.698067
Using CQ of 90.00
Prediction cycle #3
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.12 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 0.868006
Low fence: 78.301933
High fence: 90.000000
Last CQ = 90.00
Current CQ = 84.15
CQ difference = 5.849030
Using CQ of 84.15
Prediction cycle #4
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.10 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 1.054173
Low fence: 84.150970
High fence: 90.000000
Last CQ = 84.15
Current CQ = 87.08
CQ difference = 2.924515
Using CQ of 87.08
Prediction cycle #5
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.10 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 0.929318
Low fence: 84.150970
High fence: 87.075485
Last CQ = 87.08
Current CQ = 85.61
CQ difference = 1.462257
Using CQ of 85.61
Prediction cycle #6
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.68 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 0.988914
Low fence: 84.150970
High fence: 85.613228
Last CQ = 85.61
Current CQ = 84.66
CQ difference = 0.949089
Using CQ of 84.66
Prediction cycle #7
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.32 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 1.031411
Low fence: 84.664139
High fence: 85.613228
Last CQ = 84.66
Current CQ = 85.14
CQ difference = 0.474548
Using CQ of 85.14
Prediction cycle #8
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.32 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 1.009933
Low fence: 85.138687
High fence: 85.613228
Last CQ = 85.14
Current CQ = 85.61
CQ difference = 0.474541
Using CQ of 85.61
Prediction cycle #9
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.10 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 0.988914
Low fence: 85.138687
High fence: 85.613228
Last CQ = 85.61
Current CQ = 85.38
CQ difference = 0.237267
Using CQ of 85.38
Prediction cycle #10
Encoder started...
Process time: 8.10 minutes.
Encoder end.
File size difference = 0.999074
Low fence: 85.138687
High fence: 85.375961
Last CQ = 85.38
Current CQ = 85.30
CQ difference = 0.079056
Encoding set to Full encode.
Full encode start...
CQMatic complete!
Total minutes of process: 82.18
Process ended at 20:59:34
On 08/05/2003

LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\sampler.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\decomblegacy.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\dustv5.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\legalclip.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\unfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\fluxsmooth.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\GripFit_preview.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\video\dlls\STMedianFilter.dll")


MPEG2Source("d:\sol\sol.d2v")

telecide()
decimate()
LegalClip()
unfilter(50,50)
GripCrop( 720,480 )
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(8, 32, 0, 0, 8, 32)
# SpaceDust() # Optional - for some "not so clean" DVDs.
temporalsmoother(1,2)
mergechroma(blur(1.50))
mergeluma(blur(0.1))
# Convolution3d or DCTFilter for extreme worse cases.
GripBorders()
LetterBox(16, 16, 16, 16)
LegalClip()


#Sampler(length=24)
##MPEG size = ((Total frames/MovieTimeInMinutes)/24) * MPEG sample file size ##
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  #5  
08-06-2003, 07:39 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Should padding be enabled in TMPGEnc?
You mean for DVD muxing, no.
Quote:
How should I tweak formula to fit DVD rather than SVCD output?
I wouldn't even worry about it. You're talking about +- 10MB difference, to fit your movie on a 4.7GB (~4.3GB formatted) space.

-kwag
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  #6  
08-06-2003, 07:42 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Should padding be enabled in TMPGEnc?
You mean for DVD muxing, no.
Quote:
How should I tweak formula to fit DVD rather than SVCD output?
I wouldn't even worry about it. You're talking about +- 10MB difference, to fit your movie on a 4.7GB (~4.3GB formatted) space.

-kwag
Sorry. Our messages are overlapping. My output is for 2 miniDVD's, so the 1400 is important.

Also, should I use .57 Minimum Bitrate for DVD or the 300 Minimum default? (With padding off)
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  #7  
08-06-2003, 07:49 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel

Sorry. Our messages are overlapping. My output is for 2 miniDVD's, so the 1400 is important.

Also, should I use .57 Minimum Bitrate for DVD
I would always use the 0.57 * average, but if you are targetting MiniDVD and you are using a high average bitrate, then you can increase your MAX bitrate.
The 0.57 * average is still good, because it pushes the CQ curve up. So prediction will be better.
Also, try the latest version of CQM (1.1.02), which should be more accurate than the previous versions.

-kwag
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  #8  
08-06-2003, 07:55 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel

Sorry. Our messages are overlapping. My output is for 2 miniDVD's, so the 1400 is important.

Also, should I use .57 Minimum Bitrate for DVD
I would always use the 0.57 * average, but if you are targetting MiniDVD and you are using a high average bitrate, then you can increase your MAX bitrate.
The 0.57 * average is still good, because it pushes the CQ curve up. So prediction will be better.
Also, try the latest version of CQM (1.1.02), which should be more accurate than the previous versions.

-kwag
Will try latest version tonight. What is a high average bitrate? I am using KDVD full with maximum bitrate 5000 and the formula to compute averagebitrate. I'll stick with the .57*average for minimum bitrate.

I've noticed so far that the m2v's are about 5.5% larger than target.
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  #9  
08-06-2003, 08:31 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Will try latest version tonight. What is a high average bitrate? I am using KDVD full with maximum bitrate 5000 and the formula to compute averagebitrate. I'll stick with the .57*average for minimum bitrate.
With that MAX bitrate, a high average is around 2,000Kbps+.
Quote:

I've noticed so far that the m2v's are about 5.5% larger than target.
Try the latest version. See how it compares to the previous 1.1.01.

-kwag
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  #10  
08-06-2003, 08:42 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Will try latest version tonight. What is a high average bitrate? I am using KDVD full with maximum bitrate 5000 and the formula to compute averagebitrate. I'll stick with the .57*average for minimum bitrate.
With that MAX bitrate, a high average is around 2,000Kbps+.
Quote:

I've noticed so far that the m2v's are about 5.5% larger than target.
Try the latest version. See how it compares to the previous 1.1.01.

-kwag
Thanks as always, Kwag! Sorry about all the bonehead questions, but it can be confusing at times to a novice.
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  #11  
08-06-2003, 08:44 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel

Thanks as always, Kwag! Sorry about all the bonehead questions, but it can be confusing at times to a novice.
They are not bonehead questions
They are valid questions

-kwag
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