That's right
And I suggest all the people of that forum that are visiting this site now, to take a good look what's being hosted there. It's all external ideas from this site, and many other excelent sites. Not one original (and professional!) idea is being created there. Just sit, and think about that for a moment

-kwag

So do I. At the beginning of my page ------ I wrote: DCD-Templates based on KVCD-Templates. There I uploaded my modified Templates with my lable.

Now I created a matrix. I mixed it up. 50% it is still notch.

In my guides everyone will read "kwags script" or "KVCD-Script".

As I upload "my" CCE Guide, I too didn't in the beginnig add credits for vmesquita and all who helped him to "my" Guide. If you, jim, now read my guide, you'll see that I noticed him and kwag now twice in one guide.

If I didn't add this, it dosn't matter, because I handle with KVCD-Templates and somewhere in my page I wrote this.

But it is even better if You give them respect, who did the whole work.

look at the top of my guide in the "needed list" you can read
KVCD AviSynth Script (CopyRight by Kwag)
...
etc.

@ Jim
pleasure to meet you Jim!



what do you think?
when you develp something new,
came here and post about this and the date will be the proove.

when someone here develop something new,
we post in your forum but i need your promisse,
don't delete our post ok?
let the date in "peace" !...we will do something "new" first!


"don't mistake my poor english with my clear intentions."


ps:
it's not personal, is the kvcd team opinion!

so what do you think?
Dear Kwag,
maybe even you should stop flaming us.
Was it your idea to use vbr or was it from motion picture expert group?
Have you *stolen* it, or have you just used it?
Using vbr and mpeg1/2 is the only similarity of both systhems.
If someone in the MVCD Forum asks: "I have found this great xyz-Tool in the KVCD Forum, is it possible to use it with MVCD?" i see no reason to close the thread. Is this unprofessional?
It looks childish to say"But they are unprofessional ...and in the past ..."
as "incredible" sayed:
Just sit, and think about that for a moment
I drive my car with no stolen parts, and without a bad certain

Excuse me my friend, but VBR applies to audio, video, MP3, etc. It's not "Patented" or "Registered". Period. So, case closed on that issue Yeah, right. Well' we're talking now about intellectual property. User guides, who have been developed by some fellows here, and are now "appearing" at MVCD, like original work
That's what this issue is about. Could you point me to that thread
Because I don't mind Anyone using our tools. That's what they were made for
But I do mind people ripping other people (like mole), and presenting work as if it was their own. That's what this is all about. I would re-write that: "We are all ONE-CD-Sincere-MOVIE-users" at KVCD.Net, who are being ripped off by "ONE-CD-unprofessional-MOVIE-users" at molevcd. Mind you, not all, but only the ones who are aware of mole's practices and continue to harvest his piracy Yes, you really should sit back, and think what you are saying. As the way I see it, you are on the MVCD side, even though you are aware of ALL the practices that have been going on since the start of mole's first posts in this forum, and then starting MVCD with all our ideas and methods.
Just think about it ...
As for the flame, I'm very sorry, but as I said before: MoleVCD has been marked for life as a dirty sheep. There's no way out, and no matter how good (or bad) MVCD is, it will always carry the mark of piracy and stealing practices. As for us here at KVCD.Net, we are clean, as our ideas have been originally developed (scripts/software/techniques), and we don't need to look behind our backs, with a guilty conscious. And we PROUDLY give credit to developers and everyone who contributes. That's the mark of a gentleman, and that's the difference and attitude of all the people here at KVCD.Net.

-kwag

lol.. sorry
but here starts the philosophic part.. like
has Microsoft stolen the idea of windows at ATARI-GEM?
has atari/Digital Research stolen the idea of its GEM at Apple?
has apple stolen the idea of using a mouse by .. whereever..
and now Windows appears like original Work. Is Microsoft the "dirty Sheep"?

the only thing you may think that i may have done wrong is that i gave my work and my templates to the mole comunity.
ok, at that point i am guilty

Yes , hell, they've stolen the GUI from Apple, who stole the ideas from Parc Place No, they didn't Yes, again, they storel the ideas from Parc Place. All the time
And now they "Wanna be like MAC's AQUA", with the new LongHorn
Yes, they steal, and that's why they're always in court Shame on you (just kidding!)
But then again, it's your original work, and you didn't take it from anyone. And that is priceless

-kwag

singing:
we will, we will
"Roc" you

Man Roc, You're a good man! Come over! Back to the roots!!!!

so the topic is someone has stolen cce templates...

i didn't stole anything from avalon

in his fourm he posted the thread new templates on 09.08

I posted my guide with my templates on the 09.07

2 month earlier

and avalon do you have the copyright of creating cce templates...
i think no..

so have a nice day

@kwag: stop saying mvcd guys are stealing your stuff... you know tht it isn't true! We have our own matrix and that was it! It has nothing to do with your stuff! This silly hate of everything with a name like mvcd is extremely childish!

If this tutorial was taken from this board ok... but that wasn't the mvcd crew! we can't control our members like you can't control your members saying stupid things about mvcd without having any clue what they are talking about!

Avalon does a great job! The MVCD Crew reacted at Avalons protest and now? Shall we meet and battle? This is exactly the way your members present theirselves ...

Thats exactly what I do also in the Guides there. I do show the people from where the aplication is, I do tell the people who spend the time by programming Utilities like Moviestacker or TOK, .... everybody can check my Guides just for proofing. Like the TOK mod. You also can modify it by using a standard TMPEGenc based matrix or GOPs ... its just a very good aplication to receive an optimal CQ value.

Right! And thats how we should see te Situation now! We do use them. I sometimes quote Kwag in some postings, cause he began with the ONE CD Idea (well I think so). And thats why I made the comparison to the CAR and its type of gas-brand. Do you understand now what I meant by using this comparison.

But the situation which started this Thread is that at MVCD nobody thaught (and thats true) that there could be something misunderstanding or even stolen. Kwag, would you check every Thread from a "member" (not a mod or an admin) in KVCDs Board if it could contain something wich appear to be stolen? At the MVCD board it was not seen and so it was a mistake to let this Guide online.
ROC already apologized for it.

So please try to forget the time where something was stolen! The Idea of the MVCD Members NOW like me or especially roc is not to see WHERE we can get stuff, we just try to get best results with the 2.5 Template ... shure.. both Templates got their advantages. Thats why I communicate at both boards.
At MVCD Board, now they make the same stuff with different templates.
I dont know what happened exactly in the past. When I met the MVCD Board a short time ago it was just interesting what these 2.5 templates will offer in quality.
For me at this moment the 2.5 templates appeared totally different. But there are also Jobs on the other side where KVCDs Templates do offer better quality (like the KDVD Template). ok.

There should be no battle .... only 2 different types of templates and the Programs we use to obtain max. possible quality on one CD.

Kwag you said, "Dime con quien andas, y te dire quien eres"..."Tell me who you hang out with, and I'll tell you who you are" ...Si tiene razon!. ok Now I know people like mods at the MVCD Board who are doing jobs with the 2.5 Templates! They do not steal anything, they are helpful, they got knowledge like roc and its very interesting to communicate with them, and to figure out how we can obtain a maximum of quality by going NEW ways. Thats also the reason why I said "yes" when they asked me a short time ago if I could also be a member of the moderator circle. At the beginning when I was only a member with for example 2 Posts written by myself it was complicatet and I had my own experiences like CQ encoding ... Kwag, you remember the Message I send to you, by asking you whats the best way to eplain the advantage of CQ? I quoted you there, you know as I also still do now. And others there also.

In the future it would be very nice if we could communicate all together, someones do use 2.5 Templates and the other do use KVCD templates, but we try to go the same way .... I give you a hand! And others at the MVCD board with no thief instinkt too.

What you don't seem to be grasping (or are conveniently overlooking), is that Mole originally STOLE Kwag's Notch Matrix without giving him any credit, and CALLED IT HIS OWN WORK!!!!! This is documented and true! Then, some people finally found out about the Mole's deceptive ways, and warned him to give credit to Kwag for his work. It was only after being caught, that MVCD then came out with a newer, slightly modified matrix, so that they could say it was "different" . But we all know that it was still originally based upon Kwag's work, and Mole probably never would have known how to come up with something like that from scratch.

So sorry DasSchaf, but the history of MVCD is based upon stealing other peoples' work....this may (according to you) no longer be the case today, but originally, it was...and this all could have been avoided if Mole had simply given credit to Kwag in the beginning, rather than stealing it and calling it his own! And that is a "scarlet letter" that will forever be branded upon MVCD, whether or not you see this as being fair today .

When someone takes freeware, changes the GUI a little bit, and then sells it for profit, don't you think that it is illegal, or immoral? Most people would say yes. Look at how many ripoffs their are of programs like DVD-Shrink....do you think it is okay for people to steal the code and sell it for profit? If you answered no, then you should also understand why people here at kvcd.net will never respect MVCD as being legitimate. The question "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" is much more difficult to answer than the question "What came first, KVCD or MVCD?". KVCD came first! And MVCD is basically mimicking KVCD and changing very little to make itself unique in any way, so there's really not much point in MVCD even existing. Most people who want excellent quality on 1 cd will always first turn to KVCD....only unlucky, misinformed, unaware people who only speak german would likely ever use MVCD.

And it's fine that MVCD users (at least, the ones who don't know any better) are using the great programs that are created here at KVCD.net, but why aren't there any original MVCD programs? Why is everyone at the MVCD forums using all of the methods and programs that are available here at KVCD.net? It's because everyone from MVCD comes here to KVCD.net first to see the latest and greatest innovations in 1-cd encoding...and then they bring them back to the MVCD forums. Maybe some of the MVCD team should create some useful MVCD programs (based on their own ideas), rather than always coming here for their inspiration Why shouldn't all the MVCD members (and uninformed newcomers) just cut out the middleman and come directly to KVCD.net since you're really not providing anything unique there, other than a slightly modified version of Kwag's Notch Matrix and maybe a few template changes? MVCD is basically a german carbon-copy of KVCD with very few differences...and you "borrow" most of the techniques developed here....so why does MVCD even exist?. Most people who have compared report that quality of KVCD is better anyways...plus KVCD was here first!

As soon as I hear about an entirely original MVCD program created solely by MVCD members used to create MVCDs, then I will give your argument some small degree of merit. But until then, it seems to me that you and your "team" need to do some programming (but I truly hope you don't just change Tok or ACP and call it your own! Only time will tell). Creating your own programs instead of linking to or modifying ours would probably be a good start towards making MVCD a little bit more reputable in some peoples' eyes (but I'm affraid you will likely never change the minds of those who know the history of MVCD...this would take some serious work).

The fact is friend, most of us do know what we're talking about. Look at the history. It doesn't really matter if you changed things around since then...MVCD started out on the wrong path by stealing. Even your current "unique" MVCD Matrix should at least probably say the words "Based in part on Kwag's KVCD Notch Matrix" somewhere on it since I highly doubt that whoever "created" your current MVCD Matrix never even looked at Kwag's Matrix one time before or during "developmental" stages.

Normally the members of KVCD.net are an extremely friendly, thoughtful and open-minded group of individuals. But maybe we present ourselves slightly differently here when someone wrongs one of us by stealing ideas without giving proper credit (as Mole did for certain, and now possibly this Jim person has done as well). At the very least, can you really blame us if we hear someone claim something bad about MVCD and then we assume that "it's probably true"? Afterall, it has happened before....and you (Mole) have nothing to blame for your "scarlet letter" but your prior actions....it's not our fault Mole was a thief.

If you really want to show that MVCD is legitimate and has some actual merit of its own, then why don't you just remove all links and references of KVCD and every single program or guide that was originally developed at KVCD.net from your board? Tell your members they will be banned if they post or ask about programs other than the unique ones that the MVCD team has developed themselves, if any of these actually exist. (and even if you do develop a unique MVCD program, I can almost guarantee that you would NEVER see any kvcd.net members using it....wonder why? Because we don't snoop around your forums! But then again, why would we?...afterall, much of the content on your site originates from KVCD.net anyways, so it would be rather pointless for us to visit your website, now wouldn't it? ).

This kind of bickering almost never happens here unless provoked, and we really don't care too much for it, so rather than continuing to sucker us in and wasting your breath here proclaiming of MVCD's innocence, uniqueness, or value, please just go about your business back at the mole hole and have a nice day,

:wavey:
-d&c

@incredible: your olive-branch peace offering is a nice attempt (and I commend you for being a responsible person who gives credit where credit is due), but I'm affraid that no amount of apologizing or sweet-talk is going to change what happened, so it is probably best to just let KVCD and MVCD co-exist seperately, and not try to say that they should be considered equals who should try to work together. As long as people don't steal ideas or works without giving proper credit, then a general tolerance of each other should be possible to some degree at least...but this history runs deep and probably won't be so easily forgotten. This thread has probably now run its course and both sides should probably just agree to disagree, while staying out of each other's business unless new copyright issues should arise. At least, that is my feeling.

Note: I changed the title to "KVCD vs. MVCD : Round 199203: The CCE Idea".

--------------------

I can speak very good german. So I traveled around the MVCD-Forum. It took 1 hour or so. There was nothing what I hadn't known before! All was Rip-Offs of KVCD-Forum.

Some People will blame me for DCD-Templates. In the first Template I used Notch-Matrix. On my first "Retail-Box" was written: "Jetzt mir Notch-Matrix von KVCD.NET". Yes I did it! The Templates are MODs of KVCD. If You'll open now a DCD-Package it will show You this:

or this:

So I add all credits to "my" work.

It is so simple. Look at my page and You'll see that I've since today a mirror page of vmesquita's. Think about it!!!

@ dazed&confused
I dont believe that you know what you are talking about.
bullshit
as you may notice... I, and no one earns money by sharing the mvcd-templates
I do, so cool down
1. There are not that much programmers in the MVCD-Community as in the KVCD-Community, this says nothing about the Quality, this has just regional reasons, and why should i invest time to reprogram Kwags great tools? I never testet them, but if anyone like them, why should't he?
2. Most people (me to) are happy with the results they get if they use tmpgenc, load the templates .. maybee change the cq a little ore change to 2pass and click the "run" button
.... but i think you never testet this
To me it look that your oportunity is to flame around a litle, isnt it?

Maybe you shoult read what kwag wrote:
so cool down
@ avalon: hetzer wie dazed&confused sind der Grund, warum ich mich hier nicht richtig wohl fühle

First in some point of views you are right, .... well I don't know the time at MVCD before the 2.5 Matrix (which is def. not based on KVCD) came out.
I only see both communities NOW. My intention is to help (there, here and everywhere I can and with the copyrighters of the originals mentioned) and to get experiences from here, there and everywhere ... as everybody with experiences does.

BUT this "battle" here is only based on a antipathic view in case of the past of MVCD, ... ok in some cases I understand. But your arguments as show above aren't really objective.
You say, from your point of view here could be a first chance of "forgiving" if they delete everything which links to KVCD net in the MVCD Board???
Man really, .... if you would be the author of such a program ... ok, but YOU also ONLY USE this programs, which of these programs did you author that give you the right to flame like this. Kwag said, he don't mind who uses theese programs.
So, what would be if someone uses TOK at Doom9.de to show how everybody can do a CQ prediction with standard TMPEGEnc settings like GOP, matrix and so on?? Do you would also tell him to kill the links and modifications??
You are here in this Famlily this family gots his experiences about MVCD in the past, ok.. I understand.

I talk for myself, so I want to communicate at both boards, even more boards ... just to get and give experiences. My home is where I can talk to People which are able to talk to me, people with experiences and people with less experiences so I can help them ...... and where the idea is to reach the mpeg limits with the experiences we all have. I get inspirations from everywhere combinet (yes) with thngs I see here and somewhere else.

As roc said ... yes you're a bigger community including the possiblity to have softwaredesigners as members (all over the world). At MVCD they don't have, ... but IF I would totally agree with your point of view .... every kind of software we use from the outside of a community should bring us problems like this ... even here at KVCD.

Example: When i lived in South America sometime I had to return to germany I went to my freinds, told them about those delicious Arepas they have in Venezuela. Wow ... lets try to make them here also ... and so I tried to get the ingredients to make my own Arepas de Pollo ... aqui en alemania!
Then I visited my friends Venezuela again in vacations and told them that I showed the people in germany how good and delicious YOUR Arepas are.
Ok ... and thats's the point ... I didn't told them in Germany theese Arepas are my invention but I told them from where they are.
So the Friends in Venezuela got very amused and where fascinated about it that they in germany also like Arepas !!! YEAH and they do!!!
And they don't tell me ... please stop showing them OUR recipes of Arepas.

But I think we here have only the Problem with a Name called "MVCD and its past" and not with Links to KVCD in another Board. Maybe its true and the past will never get out of someones minds .... but I still hope so .. cause both communities (and all other communities too) got friendly members, people with experiences .... and one day ... we can also turn ONE CD in ONE AREPA just by using another matrix in TMPEGEnc ..... this would be like "Christmas" to me

Take care .. all of you.
There's no battle just a bad experience.


PS: Avalon, was willst du mit deiner Thread Umbenennung bewirken?
Dass man all dies nicht zu ernst nehmen sollte? Wenn ja, dann sehe ich dies auch so ...

What planet do you live in, Ehh . You're obviously someone uninformed, who doesn't know mole's background, or you are on his side, and you KNOW all the things mole did. Maybe not now. But mole DID steal our original matrix, never gave credits, and used it for a LOOOONG time. What part of that don't you understand
That makes mole and MVCD a "dirty rotten site". PERIOD The only child here is mole and all his followers, who continue to visit molevcd.de, knowing it's background. You damn right we can, and they get their ass kicked out of here in a flash
That's what distinguishes KVCD.Net from other sites.

-kwag

@incredible,

Sorry, but I agree 100% with dazed&confused post

-kwag

Deutsch (Germans talking too much. I must ever explain it with many sentences ):

Ich hab den Thread nur umbenannt, weil ich Roc einen Gefallen tun wollte. In manchen seiner Threads hasste er das Wort "Gestohlen".

Ok. Ich wars ja, der mit dem Thread angefangen hat. Ich fand es einfach nicht richtig, das meine und vmesquita's (natürlich auch die von allen, die Ihm geholfen haben) Ideen einfach als Jim's hingestellt werden.

Jim, ich weis nicht wie Du drauf gekommen bist. Da Du noch in der Schule bist kann Ich verstehen, dass Du gerne spickst. Aber warum nimmst Du einfach Arbeiten von anderen und stellst diese als Deine dar?

Vmesquita und seine Freunde (speziäl new_bee) haben Ihm geholfen, das mit CCE erst auf die Beine zu stellen, lange bevor "Deine" Anleitung entstand. Wenn Du den Thread lesen würdest (ich denke immer noch, dass Du durch diesen erst draufgekommen bist) wirst Du feststellen, das ich nur 4 Posts gemacht hatte, bevor ich meine Anleitung schrieb.

New_bee hat vmesquita's Anleitung 1:1 ins Deutsche übersetzt. Ich hab erst später damit angefangen. Ich teste meine Einstellungen immer bevor ich was online stelle. Desswegen hat es so lang gedauert, bis meine Anleitung fertig war. Zuerst gab's sie als Deutsch. Danach erst hatte ich sie in Englisch geschrieben.

Ich hab auch ein bisschen was auf die Nase bekommen, weil ich anfangs die Credits nicht in die Anleitung eingebaut hatte. Es ging um die DCD-Templates 6.0.0.0, welche 1:1 vmesquita's Templates waren. Nur, dass ich sie für die Version CCE 2.67 geschrieben hatte.

Das ich sie DCD genannt hatte hat ein Paar hier gestöhrt, was ich auch verstehe. Danach hab ich ja das auch geändert. Damit aber alle was von meinem Wissen haben schrieb ich die nächste Guide. Somit konnten nun alle Templates für CCE 2.67 und eigentlich alle anderen Versionen erstellen, weil ich Ihnen den Weg beschrieben hatte.

Ich bin immer noch der Meinung, dass Du somit erst die Templates erstellen konntest.

Warum ich eigentlich hier im Forum mich wohl fühle ist, dass ich weis, dass ich hier bei dem Original bin. Ich hab mich für die Film-auf-eine-CD-Sache wegen eines AVCD-Films befasst, den ich aus dem Netz gezogen hatte.

Die Seite Chip hostet ja die MVCD Templates. Aber wenn ich in Google "TMPGEnc Templates" eingebe lande ich immer zuerst bei KVCD.Net. Somit hab ich mir das Board näher angesehen.

Erst danach bin ich auf die MVCD Seite gegangen. MVCD 2.5 ist schön und gut, ruckeln aber bei mir. Desswegen bin ich dem auf den Grund gegangen. Und siehe da, die Einstellungen von 2.5 können garnicht funktionieren. Als ich dies behoben hatte, hatte ich ein KVCD-Template. Somit bin ich flux zu KVCD.net gegangen und hab mich dort angemeldet.

So jetzt kennt jeder meinen Hintergrund, warum ich für KVCD bin. Wenn man bei dem Original bleibt hat man erst garnicht solche Probleme, die im MVCD-Forum auftauchen.

Ich hab den Thread von Jim gelesen. Und ich fand es einfach lachhaft! Alle Probleme, die auftauchten wurden in KVCD besprochen. Ihr MVCDler seit halt einfach Lade-Template-klick-auf-Run-Typen. Von AVS versteht Ihr fast nichts (es gibt natürlich auch Ausnahmen).

Es gibt überall Hetzer. Man soll halt nicht auf sie hören. Weil wer viel schreit kann nicht zubeissen. Man kann sich auf jede Lautstärke anpassen. Falls sich irgendwas sich immer wiederholt kann es passieren, dass man es dann einfach überhört, weil es immer da ist.

Hock Dich an den Bahnhof und hör den Zügen zu. Irgendwann meinst Du, das Du am Meer bist, weil sich die Geräusche sich ständig wiederholen, wie das Plättschern des Wassers am Strand.

Wer auf Hetzer hört ist selber Schuld.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

English (simple and easy to get to the point ):

So at all. I'm fighting for KVCD and I like Originals. The most what I hate are Rip-offs. If somebody what this german huge text translated use google or some other program for this. But I think I can do it for all english-ones in two sentences:

I found AVCD (rip-off of KVCD), traveled around (AVCD-Forum, MVCD-Forum) still I found the KVCD.net. I found out which one the original was and stayed here.