Quantcast Bitrates: Calcumatic - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
08-21-2003, 03:41 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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CalcuMatic 1.0 is released
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5145
It's a standalone program, so you can use it independently of CQMatic
If you want to launch CalcuMatic from CQMatic, make sure you put the .exe in the same directory where you have CQMatic installed.
You must use CQMatic version 1.2.00 for this to work
Then press the calculator button on CQMatic, and CalcuMatic will launch.

-kwag
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  #2  
08-21-2003, 06:46 PM
audi2honda audi2honda is offline
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Hi Kwag,

Thanks for this tool. How much space does it take into account for VCD overhead and such? I like to add a simple menu to the beginning of my VCDs that takes about 1 or 2MB when built in VCDEasy, so i'm trying to figure how to calculate this with your tool.

Thanks
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  #3  
08-21-2003, 06:53 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audi2honda
Hi Kwag,

Thanks for this tool. How much space does it take into account for VCD overhead and such? I like to add a simple menu to the beginning of my VCDs that takes about 1 or 2MB when built in VCDEasy, so i'm trying to figure how to calculate this with your tool.

Thanks
Thanks audi2honda,

Don't worry about it. I left a very small "insurance" margin
Compare it to Moviestacker, and you'll see about -5Kbps "safety" difference, which would add to ~4MB on a two hour movie

-kwag
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  #4  
08-21-2003, 07:15 PM
Racer99 Racer99 is offline
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Hey Kwag,

Thank You! I have one question. For a 4.7Gb DVD what are you actually using as the true (aka 1024k vs. 1000k) size. Most of the time I am placing 3 or 4 movies / DVD. So my custom size is dependent on the total. Right now I use 1,120 MB / movie to place 4 videos on a DVD and 1,490 MB / movie for a 3 movie DVD. Does this sound about right or am I wasting or over judging the space?

Thanks

Racer99
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  #5  
08-21-2003, 08:53 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer99
Hey Kwag,

Thank You! I have one question. For a 4.7Gb DVD what are you actually using as the true (aka 1024k vs. 1000k) size. Most of the time I am placing 3 or 4 movies / DVD. So my custom size is dependent on the total. Right now I use 1,120 MB / movie to place 4 videos on a DVD and 1,490 MB / movie for a 3 movie DVD. Does this sound about right or am I wasting or over judging the space?

Thanks

Racer99
Hi Racer,

I'm using max size media of 4.3GB as 4,403.2KB for DVD

Edit: So use 1100.8 for each movie, if you want to put four on the media.

-kwag
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  #6  
08-23-2003, 09:22 PM
audi2honda audi2honda is offline
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Hi Kwag,

I just finished my first encode with the calcuMatic bitrate calculations and the encode came out about 30,000kb smaller then CalcuMatics wanted file size for a 2CD encode -2%. That is fine except the final muxed file was exactly 795MB for 2 CDs.

So if CalcuMatic would of hit its target the encode would have been to big right? 795 per CD is the max I can use and not go over 800MB after authoring with VCDEasy.

Or do you come up short of the target on purpost

Thanks!
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  #7  
08-23-2003, 10:06 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audi2honda
Hi Kwag,

I just finished my first encode with the calcuMatic bitrate calculations and the encode came out about 30,000kb smaller then CalcuMatics wanted file size for a 2CD encode -2%. That is fine except the final muxed file was exactly 795MB for 2 CDs.
Hi audi2honda,

That's not CalcuMatic's fault. That's prediction fault. What is the average bitrate wanted, if you look at Bearson's bitrate calculator
Compare it to CalcuMatic.
Quote:

So if CalcuMatic would of hit its target the encode would have been to big right? 795 per CD is the max I can use and not go over 800MB after authoring with VCDEasy.

Or do you come up short of the target on purpost

Thanks!
Yes, but very little, as insurance
BTW, 800MB is 819,200KB
You can easily burn that, without any overburn
Actually, you can go close to 810MB, which is about 829,440KB without overburning

-kwag
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  #8  
08-23-2003, 11:02 PM
audi2honda audi2honda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by audi2honda
Hi Kwag,

I just finished my first encode with the calcuMatic bitrate calculations and the encode came out about 30,000kb smaller then CalcuMatics wanted file size for a 2CD encode -2%. That is fine except the final muxed file was exactly 795MB for 2 CDs.
Hi audi2honda,

That's not CalcuMatic's fault. That's prediction fault. What is the average bitrate wanted, if you look at Bearson's bitrate calculator
Compare it to CalcuMatic.
Quote:

So if CalcuMatic would of hit its target the encode would have been to big right? 795 per CD is the max I can use and not go over 800MB after authoring with VCDEasy.

Or do you come up short of the target on purpost

Thanks!
Yes, but very little, as insurance
BTW, 800MB is 819,200KB
You can easily burn that, without any overburn
Actually, you can go close to 810MB, which is about 829,440KB without overburning

-kwag
sorry i deleted the log allready, but the java applet bitrate calc gave a slightly higher avg bitrate by about 15-20kb. I'll have to do some more experiments.

I have noticed you can go up to 805 or higher without overburn. I though 800 was the max
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  #9  
08-24-2003, 12:27 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audi2honda
I have noticed you can go up to 805 or higher without overburn. I though 800 was the max
Yes, but I calculate based on 800MB, just to leave some insurance slack

-kwag
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  #10  
08-25-2003, 01:55 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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I have only used CalcuMatic for DVD muxes so far. To use, I subtract the mp2 file size from the desired final size. enter into custom size and it hits 98 to 99%. Great.

For example. For a 115 minute film with 128 mp2 of 108MB, I entered a custom size of 1322 (1430 - 10 to compute a abr of 1441. This produced a final dvd muxed size within 98.6% of 1430. Great!

I also tested a capture of Futurama with a final target of 230MB and ended up 228 (99%) this way. Again, great!

If I do a KVCD, I see that one can choose a CD size and proceed. Is it correct that you only have to subtract mp2 size from desired size for DVD?
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  #11  
08-25-2003, 02:42 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Is it correct that you only have to subtract mp2 size from desired size for DVD?
But why are you manually subtracting the audio, if CalcuMatic does it for you
When you select the audio bitrate, it automatically subtracts the size from the video

-kwag
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  #12  
08-25-2003, 03:46 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Is it correct that you only have to subtract mp2 size from desired size for DVD?
But why are you manually subtracting the audio, if CalcuMatic does it for you
When you select the audio bitrate, it automatically subtracts the size from the video

-kwag
If I enter 1430 in custom, 115 in minutes and 128 in bitrate, I get a abr of 1570. This equates to a video size of 1353920 and an audio size of 110400 or a total of 1464320.

If I enter 1322 in custom and 115 in minutes, I get a abr of 1441. This equates to a video size of 1243328 and an audio size of 110400 or a total of 1353728. In reality, the final encoded m2v size was about 1219000 that ended up some 2% less than the NEEDED size.

1242862 = ( 1441 / * 60 * 115

1242862 will mux to approx 1300MB m2v as bbmpeg DVD
108000 will mux to approx 110MB m2p as bbmpeg DVD
---------
Predicted = 1410Mb Total

Actual muxed output (mpg) from bbmpeg (DVD) was within 2% of maximum 1430 total size (2 700MB CD's).

I stopped the first encode when the m2v file at 50% of tmpgenc process significantly exceeded one-half the size wanted. The final encode ran some 20 hours at 720x480 KDVD on my 2.53MHZ P4.

If I increase the bitrate by some 10% to 1586, the final muxed size will be well in excess of 1430000.

I also subtracted the audio size and successfully encoded a capture of Futurama with final size of 228MB against target of 230MB, or 99%.

I'll run some more tests without subtracting the mp2 size, but assure you that the final bbmpeg muxed (DVD) mpg will exceed the target. I think this results in the different "overhead" involved with DVD than with VCD or SVCD.

Hey, I'm "Happy as a clam" with everything. Your programs are doing about everything for me and resulting in 98 - 99% full disks. Just about hands free encoding! Beautiful!!!!!!

I should probably add that I mux KDVD in bbmpeg as DVD and select the muxed file in TMPGEnc Author as input. It loads both video and audio from the mpg. I then chapter and produce an image file that is burned in NERO. There is space to chapter on disks outputted as 700MB from bbmpeg. The final disks are 715600+ from bbmpeg.

I have found after many encodes that bbmpeg (DVD) mux to mpg has an overhead of about 4.69% for m2v, and about 1.56% for mp2. This seems to be very consistant. In fact, by using these percentages with no margin of error allowance, all my encodes to date (using the manual formula you kindly furnished) have involved loss of only part of the credits at the end of the film, if any loss at all.

I'll run encodes tonight and give exact figures, both with subtracting the audio and not, along with the exact file sizes produced at each step.

Keep up the good work, it is really appreciated.
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  #13  
08-25-2003, 06:29 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi nicksteel,

Are you taking into consideration that the "custom size" is in MB and not in KB
So 1,430MB is actually 1,464.32KB

-kwag
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  #14  
08-26-2003, 08:04 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Hi nicksteel,

Are you taking into consideration that the "custom size" is in MB and not in KB
So 1,430MB is actually 1,464.32KB

-kwag
I didn't realize that it is in MB, but:

Last encode was a DVD 154min40sec. 128bps mpg 145MB mpg

DVD2AVI to TMPGEnc KDVDfull. Optimum non-MA script. 4:3
Final product: 2 miniDVD's

With my calculations:

1430 - ( 145,000 * 1.0156 ) = 1,283,000 video size

1283 = ( 1004 / 8 ) * 155 * 60

1283 in CalcuMatic = 1004.6 abr

I increased abr (shouldn't have) by 1% and used abr of 1014

Output was:

m2v from TMPGEnc: 1,220,531

muxed in bbmpeg as DVD

m2v from bbmpeg: 1,288,786
mp2 from bbmpeg: 147,234
---------
1,436,020


This resulted in 3 mpg files saved as 700MB from bbmpeg:

715,584
715,702
4,734

My point is this:

If I enter 1400 into CalcuMatic as custom size, the abr is 1107.9.
If 1014 is a tad too big, 1108 would be even bigger.


I am confused, but I'm sure you'll set me on the right path.
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