Quantcast KVCD: Using KVCDx2 1-CD, How Long is Too Long? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-28-2002, 08:30 AM
srsstvs srsstvs is offline
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Ripping my FIRST DVD, Snatch, using Samrt Ripper (at 1.7x, slow?), DVD2AVI and TMPGEnc with KVCDx2 1-CD. Since the film is 16:9 so I changed the setting to this but leaving all the rest of the settings as is, the encode time is around 12 hours! Since I started last night around midnight, it's still encoding so I have no idea what will happen since I'm at work.

I have Athlon XP2000, 512MB DDR, 60G 7200 rpm HD, 16x DVD ROM, 24x CR-RW running Windows 2000, is rip time 1.7x normal? How can I improve it? Is 12 hours encoding time normal (only 100min movie) for my machine?

By using this template the mpg will be small enough to fit on one CD-R, right? Guess I'll find out after I got home.
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  #2  
06-28-2002, 09:30 AM
Daagar Daagar is offline
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I don't know the answers to your ripping questions, but yes, 12 hours for encoding is about right for your machine. The large resolution of the KVCDx2 template causes quite a bit of slowdown in TMPGEnc. You could always shave some time by using the regular KVCD template instead, but I've found that usually to make the KVCD template match the KVCDx2 template's quality you have to use a sharpen filter which quickly undoes all the speed gains of shrinking the resolution

Yes, the movie _should_ fit on 1 CD, but there is no guarantee. Typically, you want to encode a brief section of the film (I think people suggest a daylight action scene), and extrapolate the file size and adjust your CQ (and/or bitrate?) accordingly. Even this can fail, though... if the test scene you encode isn't representative of the movie as a whole, it could still come out bigger/smaller than anticipated. Then you just have to try again
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06-28-2002, 09:42 AM
sterogers sterogers is offline
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I have an XP1800 and have encoded in less than 4 hours. Don't remember exact times though. 90 min movie.
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06-28-2002, 12:21 PM
srsstvs srsstvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterogers
I have an XP1800 and have encoded in less than 4 hours. Don't remember exact times though. 90 min movie.
Was it from ripped (vob) files using the same template? Because if it were avi file I can encode it to mpg using TMPGEnc in less than 2 hours for an average 2 hour movie. The Snatch is over 4G (vob)!
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06-28-2002, 04:26 PM
gll99 gll99 is offline
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Not knowing your level of expertise, I don't want to state the obvious but the question begs to be asked. In Tmpg did you set the Options/Environmetal setting/Cpu MMX, SSE SSE2 to on and also even if only 1 cpu set multi Thread on with 1 cpu

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06-28-2002, 10:16 PM
srsstvs srsstvs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gll99

Not knowing your level of expertise, I don't want to state the obvious but the question begs to be asked. In Tmpg did you set the Options/Environmetal setting/Cpu MMX, SSE SSE2 to on and also even if only 1 cpu set multi Thread on with 1 cpu

This is my first rip and trial so that shoul tell you how "fresh" I am. I have done a lot of reading & searching on VCDHelp site before I found this site and start experimenting Kwag's templates.

To answer your question, SSE2 is grayed, multi Thread was not checked, others were on.

Snatch(100min) came out 954MB using 1-CD template, so that will not fit on an 800MB CD. I'm trying to re-encode using Slab's setting by still using KVCD 352x480 but change to MPEG-2 and unlock the template using "3:2 pulldown when playback", 23.976(internal 29.97), min=0, max=1450 and see what the size will become. It should be smaller, right? Because original 1-CD was 704x480. If it's still over 800MB what else can I try? Lower the CQ (at 70 now)?
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  #7  
06-29-2002, 03:12 AM
slab slab is offline
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Hi srsstvs,
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsstvs
Snatch(100min) came out 954MB using 1-CD template, so that will not fit on an 800MB CD. I'm trying to re-encode using Slab's setting by still using KVCD 352x480 but change to MPEG-2 and unlock the template using "3:2 pulldown when playback", 23.976(internal 29.97), min=0, max=1450 and see what the size will become. It should be smaller, right? Because original 1-CD was 704x480. If it's still over 800MB what else can I try? Lower the CQ (at 70 now)?
Kwag's hard work here has been amazing, and for awhile, not long ago, different templates were flying out of here very rapidly. With the birth of the "Andreas Matrix" the templates have been restructured and standardized for awhile now,(I can't believe I just said that! ) but the work in progress is still ongoing (see this informative LINK).

Referencing your comments, let me get you current on where I have evolved to since that previous post of mine.

The new templates w/"Andreas Matrix"...I don't use them...Short answer = Encoding time vs the acceptable quality I get with the "Default" Matrix is not an advantage to me....Simply my "VW" processor cannot keep time with the new "Formula 1" processors available to those that use the new templates...

What is truely fascinating (or frustrating) about this subject of encoding flowing video and audio into a format we can enjoy, is the infinite combinations of tools, methods, equipment, and personal tastes. (That's why forums like this one, and others, are the real "Never Ending Stories") My point is..whatever might work for me, may not work for others (equipment). And my taste in "acceptable quality" might actually insult others.... It's all so very, very subjective.

Anyway to get back to your post, I was using an older template with those values you referenced above...If your player can handle MPEG-2 also, than this might be of interest...I still encode in MPEG-2 (because of my player's resolution restrictions in MPEG-1(NTSC))But here's where I'm at now.

Tools: Smartripper=>DVD2AVI=>TMPGEnc=VCDEasy(chaptering and Burn)

Methods: Load KWAG template and tweak to MPEG-2=unlock the template using "3:2 pulldown when playback", 23.976(internal 29.97), system tab to "MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR)"...I have currently upped the resolution to 480x480 vs 352x480...My arguement here ismuch better quality than x352...and unless you have HDTV or big screen..704 is overkill for std TV's (my opinion), only nominal filesize gains...for MIN/MAX bitrates I interchange between 0-300 on the low side and 1450, 1750, 2300 on the higher end...This all depends on the type of move (ie..High action - slow drama)
Once I determine the movie type I begin to test MIN/MAX and CQ levels to determine "acceptable quality" and to also determine MB per minute calcs/movie length for 1 or 2 CD decision.

Last Project: The Majestic, (credits edited) 148 minutes 2-CD's
MPEG-2 = 480x480
FFilm, 23.976 fps(internally 29.97 fps), (3:2 Pulldown when playback)
CQ=78, 0-0, MIN/MAX=300 - 2300*...Note* (CD-1=300 - 1750)
Q-Matrix=default, 1-12-3-1-0
Audio=160*/192 dual channel...Note* (CD-1=160)
MPEG2 Super Video(VBR)
VCDEasy burn=8x, 36 chapters(18 evenly spaced per CD)
CD-1 = 730MB (73:47min) CD-2 = 822MB (74:13min)
Very good quality

I would suggest if your going to encode in MPEG-2 and your player has no "standard limitations" (tweakable) for MPEG-2 (xSVCD) try a resolution of 480x480 (unless you need the better resolution for a monster TV ) and start with some test encodes between 0-300 - 1750-2300, CQ 75, this will give you a start for quality and file sizes with respect to your movie length. I found a good rule of thumb is that MIN/MAX should be adjusted first for the action requirements of the movie, and then use CQ adjustments to raise/lower the avg bitrate level needed for "quality" tastes with-in the MIN/MAX levels. Just one final note, GOP compressions and Audio choices can be tweaked to control filesize also .........Good Luck
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06-29-2002, 01:29 PM
srsstvs srsstvs is offline
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My re-encoded using your settings, Slab, came out at 889MB (vs. 954MB before) and obviously it won't fit on one 80min cd. Plus, I played to a fast fight scene on my pc and saw ghousting in movements. Also, I see the first encode was output to 4:3 instead of 16:9, so I decided to take the vob files and encode again and just to cut and fit on 2 CD-R.

This time I modified the KVCD1-CD template using the TMPGEnc Wizard where (default):
VIDEO
Size: (704x480) unchanged, (figure I gonna put on 2 cd anyway, might as well use higher resolution)
Aspect Ratio: (4:3 525 line NTSC) change to 16:9 525 line NTSC
Frame rate: (23.976) changed to 29.97 (I saw my Mintek 1600 will play only 29.97?)
CQ: (Max.2300/Min.300/50) changed to 1500/150/70
VBV buffer size: ( 48 ) unchanged (does this affect speed or quality?)

ADVANCED
Video source: (interlace) unchanged
Field folder: (top field first) unchanged
Source Aspect ration: (16:9) unchanged
Video arrange Method: (Full screen) changed to Full screen w/ AR 2 (I guess this is where I screwed up the first time, kept at full screen)

I notice the Inverse telecine was checked, which I guess because I changed the frame rate from 23.976 to 29.97? This conversion alone took 1 hour! What will happen if I unchecked this?

I can see that this time instead of 12 hours encoding time, it's showing 4 hours (plus 1 hour for the frame conversion time). What made it reduce so much time? Is it because I kept it as MPEG-1 instead of MPEG-2? If I changed it to MPEG-2 the file size will increase to 1.8G and won't fit on 2 cd that's why I kept it and my Mintek player doesn't like MPEG-2 (not to mention my other two Sony, each costs over $300, won't play CD-R at all). Now we'll see what comes out in 4 hours.

Slab, after that I might try your settings and see the differences. Could you explain the functions of"3:2 pulldown when playing" vs. others, "MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR) vs. other settings, interlace vs. non, and Top field vs. Bottom field and how to decide which and when to use those? Thanks! (Is there a TMPGEnc user's manual out there that explains all the settings and you can download?)

7:30p.m. I'm back just to find out it stopped encoding with 13 minutes left with a warning message saying the calculation of decimal is wrong. And I can't play the unfinished mpg. Now I'm gonna just try using TMPGEnc's VCD template and see what kind of quality will I get first.
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  #9  
07-01-2002, 03:58 PM
slab slab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsstvs
My re-encoded using your settings, Slab, came out at 889MB (vs. 954MB before) and obviously it won't fit on one 80min cd. Plus, I played to a fast fight scene on my pc and saw ghousting in movements. Also, I see the first encode was output to 4:3 instead of 16:9, so I decided to take the vob files and encode again and just to cut and fit on 2 CD-R.
Again, these were just "suggestions" for MPEG-2 encodes. Since I watch all my stuff on (NTSC)TV, I always leave the output(Video) Aspect Ratio to 4:3. This way I mirror my "source" AR in the "Advanced" tab and adjust with the "Video Arrange Method" this seems to work for my player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsstvs
Frame rate: (23.976) changed to 29.97 (I saw my Mintek 1600 will play only 29.97?)
This will add 20% to your filesizes, because your not getting the benefit of FFilm(23.967 fps).
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsstvs
Could you explain the functions of"3:2 pulldown when playing" vs. others, "MPEG2 SuperVideoCD (VBR) vs. other settings, interlace vs. non, and Top field vs. Bottom field and how to decide which and when to use those? Thanks! (Is there a TMPGEnc user's manual out there that explains all the settings and you can download?)
Yikes!..big topic!...Here's the short, and some links that help...Most DVD movies are shot @ 24fps(film) but (NTSC film) requires 29.97fps for playback..so to get smooth looking playback, 3:2 stretch's the frames by adding interlaced frames (3) progressive (2)interlaced..hence the name. Some players autotelecine others need to be told, and the 3:2 pulldown flags the stream...Easy right?! ...Here's more Link or Detailed Linkand Total Link.

For a TMPGEnc guide here's one.. Guide there are others on the WEB..just do a google search. But I found the quickest way is to ask specific questions in forums such as this or VCDhelp....
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  #10  
07-01-2002, 04:19 PM
srsstvs srsstvs is offline
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Thanks a lot Slab. I have posted another topic and got several feed backs since this one, everybody just been GREAT! Don't you just wish the whole world is like this - helpful and friendly?

Anyway, Timberwolf had posted a link under TMPGEnc Encoder forum to explain the TMPGEnc's settings, I printed out and that REALLY helps me a lot. I bet there are others out there just as grateful as I am!!! I will continue to try with all your guys' suggestions and see if I can perfect my first ever DVD copy. I know what I'll be doing this 4th of July weekend and I'll post my results later. Thanks again!
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