KDVD: Possible to Fit 6 Hours on a DVD-R ?

holgerschlegel · #1 10-15-2003, 02:52 AM

I've read in this forum more then once that it is possible to put up to 6 hours full d1 on one dvd-r. What cq values are you using?

The following situation:
Captured two movies from analog tv cable using picvideo mjpeg quality 19 at 704x576. After removing the comercials one is 129 minutes (Forest Gump) and the other 118 minutes (The Fifth Element). To put them both on the same dvd-r I decided to use 2250MB for Forest Gump and 2050MB for The Fifth Element. Using CalcuMatic results in an average bitrate of 2150kbps for both movies. Fine so far.
Using the ma-script and added KernelDeint for deinterlacing and ConvertToVY12. The tmpgenc text projects for the movies are set to mpeg-2, source and target non-interlaced. Runing CQMatic to predict the cq values results in cq values of 40 (+/-5, don't know the excapt values now).

Maybe I've missed something, but for me putting about 4 hours on one dvd-r is hard, how do you archive 6 hours per dvd-r in good quality?

Holger

incredible · #2 10-15-2003, 03:22 AM

Quote:

I've read in this forum more then once that it is possible to put up to 6 hours full d1 on one dvd-r. What cq values are you using?

Do a prediction before using CQmatic & CALcumatic you never can assume exactly the needed CQ! (oh sorry you already did it ..)

Quote:

Captured two movies from analog tv cable using picvideo mjpeg quality 19 at 704x576.

Good! Many people do their capturing using 720x576 (wrong, in case of 720 right should be 704 captured resized with 8+8 borders added to the sides!). I hope you captured "resized" to 704x576 and NOT cropped!

Quote:

After removing the comercials one is 129 minutes (Forest Gump) and the other 118 minutes (The Fifth Element). To put them both on the same dvd-r I decided to use 2250MB for Forest Gump and 2050MB for The Fifth Element.

*lol* I did the same ... ive also captured at PRO7 "5th Element"
But watch out: They broadcasted "5thElement" in an interlaced condition so as you do .. deinterlacing is the ebst choice. But I dont know if also "Forrest Gump" was broadcasted interlaced .... verify the movie without avisynth in Vdub if you can see Comb-Effects, if not ... youre lucky.
Sunday for example I captured another Movie at PRO7 and it was definitely not interlaced.

Quote:

Using the ma-script and added KernelDeint for deinterlacing and ConvertToVY12. The tmpgenc text projects for the movies are set to mpeg-2, source and target non-interlaced. Runing CQMatic to predict the cq values results in cq values of 40 (+/-5, don't know the excapt values now).

And thats the point why you receive less CQ. The whole MA script is very useful when handling good DVD sources. But your Capture, especially the broadcasting of "5th Element" was (IMHO) a bad Job of PRO7.
Very much grain, interlaced and so on...
Deinterlace before and afterwards use Deen with sptial settings and some Temporal Soften to receive a good picture on your DVD Burning.
Or use the MA Script (cause theres a lot of movement in the movie) and rise the spatial values at STMedianFilter.

And ... why encoding at mpeg2 if the movie after avisynth is no more interlaced? Choose mpeg1 this will give you some more extra CQ and if your Stand Alone accepts 480x576 using mpeg1 --- try it!

Boulder · #3 10-15-2003, 03:32 AM

IMO you should keep the clip interlaced. Motion is a lot more smoother that way.

Do a test clip and you'll see what I mean

incredible · #4 10-15-2003, 03:49 AM

I also do very often let the interlacing untouched (cause of speed, details and sharpness) but whatever I tried
on this case of this broadcasting... it came out horrible... when leaved in the interlaced condition even at still 576 high and handled with seperate fields or all other options which were mentioned here in this forum or at doom9.org.
As I told they broadcasted something very strange at PRO7 in the case of "5th element" and its interlacing. I never had problems with untouched interlaced movies like in this case before.

It seems that they got an interlaced material - reencoded it wrong for broadcasting or something else ... cause the combs seem more fat

*strange and never seen before* and delivered this condition through the cable Tv or sat

Boulder · #5 10-15-2003, 04:18 AM

Or simply a bad NTSC->PAL transfer was used. Not uncommon these days

incredible · #6 10-15-2003, 04:41 AM

Yes, that could be the reason!
Thats why the combs are too fat! They maybe just resized the interlaced NTSC orig from 480 to 576 in its high and added the german soundtrack. Maybe, but this would end terrible also when viewed over cable TV without captured and encoded.

incredible · #7 10-15-2003, 08:06 AM

Another Point Holger, if you got a correct captured interlaced PAL video and want to do a spatial/temporal cleaning by still keeping the interlacing correct preserved I recommend this.
(Im at work so if there's something wrong some "Crack" should give an advice)

################## Import the Source #####################
#
Avisource("D:\Dein_AVI.avi")
#
### Convert to YV12 if a Cleaner which only works in YV12 is used ########
#
#ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
#
########## The interlaced cleaning/resizing/sharpen routine ############
#
video = SeparateFields()
evenfield = SelectEven(video).MipSmooth(preset = "MovieLQ")
oddfield = SelectOdd(video).MipSmooth(preset = "MovieLQ")
Interleave(evenfield,oddfield)
BicubicResize( ----Values from moviestacker given in "interlaced" mode!!!----)
Unfilter(30, 30)
Weave()
#
########## finally the added borders ######
#
AddBorders(----Values from moviestacker-----)
#
############### Macroblock optimized borders around #################
#
Letterbox(16, 16, 16, 16)
#
################################################## ###########

This "try-out" script uses MipSmooth. As it should work in YUY2() you don't need to change to YV12() if captured in YUY2

I heard that MipSmooth uses a Resize Value so I hope this will work when using the separated fields routine.

You can get MipSmooth here:
http://cultact-server.novi.dk/kpo/av...mipsmooth.html

But there its adviced to use the latest Build (11.10.03) Version of Avisynth 2.5.2 also to get more speed when using MipSmooth.dll
http://cultact-server.novi.dk/kpo/av...nth_111003.exe

This all gives you also more CQ when burning interlaced Captures to DVD-R

You also can use Convolution3d above but then you have to convert to YV12! And thats what I would avoid.

Avisource("D:\Dein_AVI.avi")
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) # cause of using convolution 3d
video = SeparateFields()
evenfield = SelectEven(video).Convolution3D (1, 8, 15, 8, 10, 3, 0)
oddfield = SelectOdd(video).Convolution3D (1, 8, 15, 8, 10, 3, 0)
Interleave(evenfield,oddfield)
BicubicResize( ----Values from moviestacker given in "interlaced" mode!!!----)
Unfilter(30, 30)
Weave()
AddBorders(----Values from moviestacker-----)
Letterbox(16, 16, 16, 16)

Boulder · #8 10-15-2003, 08:16 AM

Use ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true) as the source is interlaced.

incredible · #9 10-15-2003, 08:19 AM

You're right! I forgot. Will be edited.

holgerschlegel · #10 10-15-2003, 09:28 AM

My dvd player does not support 480x576 for dvds, neither as mpeg1 nor as mpeg2 (it supports svcd...), thats why I use 704x576 as capture and target size. Read somewhere that for mpeg1 the max allowed bitrate is either ~1800 or ~2800 (don't remember exactly).
Done tests some time ago to find out the working resolutions but don't know the used bitrates ... will try mpeg1 with a bitrate of 5000 and if successful maybe switch to mpeg1.

And I should try the other way, remaining the interlacing via SeparateFields() ... Weave().

Lot's to try out ...

Thx.
Holger

incredible · #11 10-15-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holgerschlegel

My dvd player does not support 480x576 for dvds, neither as mpeg1 nor as mpeg2 (it supports svcd...), thats why I use 704x576 as capture and target size.

Exact!
Sorry, I forgot .... we are here at KDVD not at KVCD

So shure use mpeg2 at 704x576 for DVD-R for me its the best choice.

Quote:

... will try mpeg1 with a bitrate of 5000 and if successful maybe switch to mpeg1.

I would stay with mpeg2 at 704x576... and no more changed. My player for example doesn't support 704x576 when using mpeg1 in DVD mode.

So as you said ... try

Alert Edit: I tried MipSmooth "VHS" using the routine shown above and:

*bullsh...*

vmesquita · #12 10-16-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holgerschlegel

Maybe I've missed something, but for me putting about 4 hours on one dvd-r is hard, how do you archive 6 hours per dvd-r in good quality?

If you're capturing from TV, probably you're doing full-screen stuff, which can have up to twice the compressibility widescreen material have, since black borders are very compressible, of course. For full-screen interlaced NTSC stuff, my limit is 4 hours at 352x480 for interlaced stuff (keeping interlaced)
Also you're in PAL land, where frame is bigger (576 versus 480 in NTSC). I live in a NTSC land, but looks like the limit is 5 hours of 704x576 progressive widescreen material.

[]'s
VMesquita