Quantcast Lot of Blocks Appear, and Part of Screen is Flickering? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
10-19-2003, 03:11 PM
Ryo Ryo is offline
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Hi! I started 2 weeks ago with making KVCDs. I got a lot of help in the german forum and now the quality of my KVCDs is now really good.

At the beginnig I could not believe in KVCD but now I do. I am using ToK and mpeg-1 as stream type. My player DRAGON DVD-100 can play all 6 samples from the compatibility image. :P

In another topic I told you:
Quote:
The start and end titles "fly" through the screen. It only happens when only very little writing is scrolling through the screen on a black background. Then the normal writing appears also flickering in the top left and right corners. For example: The end credits start and the first names scroll in the picture (black background). The flickering and "flying" starts. But when more writing appears the titles scroll as they should. That is my only KVCD problem.

First I thought that it was a problem with the Min. Bitrate. But then I increased the Min. Bitrate in several steps up to 1000 and the problem with the credits was just the same. It happens with the following players: Dragon DVD-100 and Cyberhome DVD-402. When watching the movie on the computer there is no problem at all.


That is the answer of Dialhot:
Quote:
That's a player problem reported on other models too.
O.K. I can live with the "title problem". But today I tried a new movie and it happened during the movie. In a very bright scene (Star Trek Nemesis; they are on a planet and drive a buggy) a lot of black blocks appear and a part of the screen is flickering in the top left and right corner. SH*T!

And so I thought this was worth a new topic because it is a very special mpeg-1 problem. I am using 480 x 576 as PAL resolution and my player can play all mpeg-1 resolutions.

So I tried mpeg-2 and there was no flickering but the quality is not as good as mpeg-1! Does anyone know this problem? I would like to use mpeg-1 for better quality... Help!
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  #2  
10-19-2003, 10:30 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Hi Ryo,

Have you tried muxing and burning your Mpeg-1 file as SVCD following Mauddib's suggested SVCD settings for BBMpeg listed here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2742. Maybe that might help

Good luck,
-d&c
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  #3  
10-20-2003, 05:24 AM
Ryo Ryo is offline
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Thank you dazed&confused!

I muxed it in every possible way (SVCD, VCD; bbMPEG, TMPGEnc) but the problem is still there!

Am I the only one with this mpeg-1 problem?
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  #4  
10-20-2003, 05:38 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Did you also tried one setting in TmpgEnc's CQ Mode Settings --- to check the option "enable ...... not to be lower than min Bitrate"??
Cause TmpgEnc sometimes goes below the min bitrate even its set to a definitve value.

Try this, and just encode about the first 10 Min of the Movie (where your problem appears at the beginning) do a muxing using bbmpeg and the recommended settings --- burn the disk --- watch it on Tv.
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  #5  
10-20-2003, 07:04 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo
Am I the only one with this mpeg-1 problem?
No you are not ! As I told you before (and you quoted me in your post) :
Quote:
That's a player problem reported on other models too.
I never see anyone finding a solution but perhaps this time...
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  #6  
10-20-2003, 11:27 AM
bman bman is offline
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Hi Ryo!
Did u tryed to encode this specific very bright scene with max bitrate of 2200 or even 2000 instead of 2500 ?
It could be bitrate problem !!!
bman
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10-20-2003, 11:57 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Oh, ... i didn't recognise that he also got problems on bright scenes
Thats also a point I do on all my encodings ... lowering the max bitrate for each movie different ... for example less action scene-movies ... for me this gives a real advantage to obtain less filesize by still preserving quality.
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  #8  
10-20-2003, 03:44 PM
Ryo Ryo is offline
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I tested different PAL mpeg-1 resolutions:

1. 528 x 576 failed
2. 480 x 576 failed
3. 352 x 288 O.K.

So I think that my player can not handle mpeg-1 in higher resolutions than standard PAL VCD. The strange think about it is that 99% of the movie plays correct with the higher resolutions. Maybe there is a solution!?

@Dialhot: Sorry, I meant the problem during the movie and not the titles!

@all: It does not seem to be the bitrate. I tried higher Min. and lower Max. Bitrates.
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  #9  
10-21-2003, 04:12 AM
bman bman is offline
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Hi Ryo !
I would like to suggest one more test if it's ok with u .
Try to mux video & audio stings as mpeg1(system) or even as mpeg2(system) if your player can play SVCD.
This way( if it's working for u) u'll lose ~13% of disk space (burner will put 2048byte/sector instead of 2324) but u'll get high resolutions working on your player
It worth to try !
bman
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  #10  
10-22-2003, 03:18 PM
Ryo Ryo is offline
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@bman: Thank you! I tried your way but still have the problems.

@All: All files from the compatibility image v2 played well on my player but when I use mpeg-1 I have errors in some scenes (titles, very bright light and some animations). Is there really no solution. So I have to use mpeg-2 and it looks not so good...

If ever someone with DRAGON DVD-100 or DIK DVD-270 reads this and has made another experience please post it.
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  #11  
10-22-2003, 05:36 PM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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Try encoding the video with mpeg-1 but with a frame rate of 29.97(30) fps. I had a problem with my Philips that it only plays movie files at 30fps when the mpeg file was optimized. It was the same with another DVD player I tried on, so it might be the same with yours.
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Later ak
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  #12  
10-23-2003, 04:41 AM
bman bman is offline
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Ryo !
Last very last one !
Try to encode whole movie VIDEO and AUDIO as CBR .
I think your player heats VBR mode .
bman
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  #13  
10-23-2003, 04:48 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bman
Ryo !
Last very last one !
Try to encode whole movie VIDEO and AUDIO as CBR .
So "say good bye to KVCD"
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10-23-2003, 05:04 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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No, say welcome to KVCD ....

by using mpeg1 on 352x288 Streams (also KDVD) and
by using mpeg2 on 480x576 Streams!

That problem is known in other forums too.
Player models like yours, some mustek and some others too, ... have problems when encoding mpeg1 by choosing a height of 576!!
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  #15  
10-23-2003, 05:50 AM
bman bman is offline
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@ incredable
Are u sure that prob is height of 576 ???
Cos if so maybe it'll be solution to convert PAL resolution (576) to NTSC(480) and encode with (NTSC) lower resolution .
I'm doing so almoast all my last encodes ?!!
bman
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10-23-2003, 08:03 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Have you tried muxing and burning as SVCD? My Pioneer DV-343 doesn't really like VBR MPEG-1 files but if I mux and burn as SVCD, they play just fine

I use bbMPEG to mux and VCDEasy to create the CD image. You can burn the image with any program you like.
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  #17  
10-23-2003, 08:52 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bman
@ incredable
Are u sure that prob is height of 576 ???
Cos if so maybe it'll be solution to convert PAL resolution (576) to NTSC(480) and encode with (NTSC) lower resolution .
I'm doing so almoast all my last encodes ?!!
bman
Well everything could be possible, thats why we're here
The point is that some players do not accept 480x576 by using mpg1
480x576 mpeg2 in many cases solved this problem. Those players are too much in love with standards I think.
On the other Hand, just converting a PAL Size to 480x480 by still maintaining the 25FPS is another trick, yes I did this too but also it depends upon the players brand and model.

Thats why he should do a test using KVCD mpeg2 480x576.
90% of my OneCD Encodings are encoded as 480x576, mpeg1 (cause mine accepts this) and muxed by using bbmpeg as SVCD to use the header trick. Thats why my standalone "thinks" he gets a legal 480x576 mpeg2 SVCD disk.
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  #18  
10-23-2003, 10:57 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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incredible wrote:
[/quote]

Those players are too much in love with standards I think.
....but also it depends upon the players brand and model.

[/quote]

really true incredible!
in few words you show the "secrets"!

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  #19  
10-24-2003, 01:23 PM
Ryo Ryo is offline
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Than you all very much! I did so much tests...

Now these are the KVCD resolutions I have to use:

1. 352 x 288 PAL mpeg-1
2. 480 x 576 PAL mpeg-2

Is there anything special I have to know about mpeg-2? Are there any options that put the quality closer to mpeg-1?
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  #20  
10-25-2003, 02:22 AM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Sorry to hear none of the suggestions here seemed to work for you Ryo.

I'm just curious...did you try encoding your problematic bright scene and/or credits using CBR instead of CQ like bman suggested? Understand, I'm not recommending that you encode your KVCDs this way, but simply as a test to see whether or not the VBR encoding is the source of your (and other peoples') problem. If the problem remains even with CBR, then it would seem that the problem is probably due to some kind of hardware or firmware (software) limitation of your dvd player.

While I don't think this is the answer to your problem, I found this vaguely similar article about luminosity problems on cyberhome's site: http://www.cyberhome.com/tech_issues.asp?ID=24 . I figured someone may find it of interest.

More likely, your player is just fussy with non-standard mpeg-1 streams. Have you checked online for any firmware upgrades (official or non-official) for your player? If any exist, that may help. Also, some dvd players use a standard IDE-based PC DVD-ROM drive inside. If you are comfortable and competent working with electronics (and don't mind possibly voiding your warranty by opening it), you might consider opening your dvd player (unplug it first!) and carefully replacing the DVD-Rom drive with another one to see if it might help any. Some people do this trick to allow their older dvd players to play the newer media types, such as dvd+-R/RW or 99-minute CDRs. Newer Lite-On dvd drives are a pretty good choice because they tend to support most formats, but any drive would probably be okay for simple testing purposes. I'm definetly no expert in this area, but I would guess that your problem is probably more likely due to the software that runs your dvd player rather than the dvd-rom drive itself, but it still might be worth a shot if you've tried everything else and you like to experiment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo
Is there anything special I have to know about mpeg-2? Are there any options that put the quality closer to mpeg-1?
Well, mpeg-2 looks/works better at higher bitrates, so splitting your movie onto more than 1 disc and increasing your CQ level would help (or else dropping to 352x576 for 1-disc encodes would give you a higher CQ, but less sharpness). If your movies are short and you have enough space on your discs, you also might want to try mpeg-2 @ 528/544/704x576 resolutions if those will work for you, but PAL resolution + PAL framerate + mpeg-2 all create larger filesizes than NTSC mpeg-1, so larger resolutions may not be an option for you unless you want to use 2 or 3 discs. I'm sure some PAL users can give you some better advice about what resolutions and CQ levels you can expect to be able to use for your PAL encodes of various lengths.

You might consider taking your problematic KVCD (and a copy of the compatibilty Test CD) to your local electronics stores and finding yourself a nice KVCD-compliant replacement player! It sure would be easier than all of this!

GOLDEN RULE: If it doesn't play KVCD, DON'T BUY IT! (boy, it sure would be great to see a player that boasts of KVCD-compliancy someday!...even any general mention of "X"vcd/svcd compatibility would be a nice change.....Kwag, if you could ever manage to work a deal with some manufacturer/s to specifically tailor a player to KVCD specifications, I'd be first in line ).

Good luck,
-d&c
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