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-   -   Problems converting from Anamorphic with KVCD Template? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/62-problems-converting-anamorphic.html)

energy80s 05-02-2002 11:51 AM

Problems converting from Anamorphic with KVCD Template?
 
Hi Kwag, I'm having serious problems trying to get TMPGenc to encode an anamorphic 704x576 picture to a letterboxed 4:3 image. No matter what settings in the video arrange/display modes I choose, the picture ends up being either coded at 21:9 or 4:3 anamorphic. It only seems to be with your template that I am having these problems. I spent 2 hours trying to encode a 10 second sequence but could not get a proper 4:3 letterboxed image out of it. What setting to you use?

kwag 05-02-2002 12:39 PM

Re: Problems converting from Anamorphic with KVCD Template.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
Hi Kwag, I'm having serious problems trying to get TMPGenc to encode an anamorphic 704x576 picture to a letterboxed 4:3 image. No matter what settings in the video arrange/display modes I choose, the picture ends up being either coded at 21:9 or 4:3 anamorphic. It only seems to be with your template that I am having these problems. I spent 2 hours trying to encode a 10 second sequence but could not get a proper 4:3 letterboxed image out of it. What setting to you use?

Hi energy80s:

Process your material with an AviSynth script. Use FitCD to create your script and besides Crop: select "Accurate" and destination select "1/2 DVD".

Then AviSynth will do the job for you autoMaGically. :D

You can select 1:1 Full Screen under input aspect in TMPEG, because the correct resize is being frameserved from AviSynth into TMPEG.

kwag

energy80s 05-03-2002 08:04 AM

I don't have AVI Synth, I use Virtual Dub to frameserve, or input the video directly into TMPGenc. Is there no other way of getting your template to work with widescreen? This isn't just for DVD rips, I also capture in anamorphic off satellite and then re-code this to 4:3 letterbox. I've had no problems with other templates, just with the KVCD one.

kwag 05-03-2002 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
I don't have AVI Synth, I use Virtual Dub to frameserve, or input the video directly into TMPGenc. Is there no other way of getting your template to work with widescreen? This isn't just for DVD rips, I also capture in anamorphic off satellite and then re-code this to 4:3 letterbox. I've had no problems with other templates, just with the KVCD one.

Hi energy80s:

That's because of the 352x480 resolution.

If you capture at 352x480, and you are reading from your captured avi with TMPEG, then change the input aspect to 4:3 or 16:9 depending on your source but change the Video arrange Method to Full Screen.

That will fix your output aspect ratio.

This works every time if you captured at 352x480.

Are you capturing at other resolutions?

kwag

DrChumley 05-03-2002 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
I don't have AVI Synth, I use Virtual Dub to frameserve, or input the video directly into TMPGenc. Is there no other way of getting your template to work with widescreen? This isn't just for DVD rips, I also capture in anamorphic off satellite and then re-code this to 4:3 letterbox. I've had no problems with other templates, just with the KVCD one.

As per Kwag's instructions in my old topic, I went home last night, and under advanced, I chose Center (custom aspect ratio) and chose a resolution of 352 X 352, and it worked like a charm. You can verify (pretty closely) how it's going to look while you're encoding by forcing the preview to 320X240.

DrC

energy80s 05-04-2002 05:23 AM

Quote:

Hi energy80s:

That's because of the 352x480 resolution.

If you capture at 352x480, and you are reading from your captured avi with TMPEG, then change the input aspect to 4:3 or 16:9 depending on your source but change the Video arrange Method to Full Screen.

That will fix your output aspect ratio.

This works every time if you captured at 352x480.

Are you capturing at other resolutions?

kwag
Kwag, I capture at 720x576 as the lower res looks crap. If its a standard 4:3 picture I have to set the Video Arrange Method to FullScreen to get a proper image, but with an anamorphic 4:3 capture if I do this then it will output as 4:3 anamorphic again without doing the aspect ratio conversion. That's my problem. I must try a 352x288 encode with your template and see if that aspects OK. As Arnie says ... "I'll Be Back!" :lol:

kwag 05-04-2002 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
Quote:

Hi energy80s:

That's because of the 352x480 resolution.

If you capture at 352x480, and you are reading from your captured avi with TMPEG, then change the input aspect to 4:3 or 16:9 depending on your source but change the Video arrange Method to Full Screen.

That will fix your output aspect ratio.

This works every time if you captured at 352x480.

Are you capturing at other resolutions?

kwag
Kwag, I capture at 720x576 as the lower res looks crap. If its a standard 4:3 picture I have to set the Video Arrange Method to FullScreen to get a proper image, but with an anamorphic 4:3 capture if I do this then it will output as 4:3 anamorphic again without doing the aspect ratio conversion. That's my problem. I must try a 352x288 encode with your template and see if that aspects OK. As Arnie says ... "I'll Be Back!" :lol:


I capture from satellite at 352x480, but I see that your system is PAL.

Have you tried capturing at 352x576?

I have capture at 720x480 for test purposes, but as my target is always 352x480, I never saw any quality improvement by capturing above 352x480.

kwag

energy80s 05-04-2002 12:02 PM

Kwag, I tried to capture at 352x576 but the results were crap. Then again I'm using an ATI AIW card so I don't expect miracles!! Currently capping at 15Mbps I Frame only and then converting this down to either CVD or KVCD using VirtualDub and TMPGenc - a setup that has worked fine to date. However I decided that I would cap a TV show from BBC1 off satellite in Anamorphic AR and use TMPGenc to letterbox it and therefore not waste any bits on the black bars at the top & bottom of the screen. The CVD template could do this fine but your KVCD template couldn't.

I've since tried with 352x288 and the template works fine so it seems to be a problem with 352x576 encodes of anamorphic material.

kwag 05-04-2002 12:47 PM

@energy80s:

Have you tried these drivers with your card?
http://btwincap.sourceforge.net

kwag

energy80s 05-04-2002 03:34 PM

Why would I want to??

I am happy enough with the captures in MMC 7.6 and I don't think that the All-In-Wonder series is supported as I don't think it's based on the Brooktree chipset. I don't want to capture in AVI anyway, as it is too large a file size to be practical when capturing, say, a 2 hour film and a couple of sit-com episodes on the one night!!

No, all I would like to do is encode anamorphic captures to letterboxed 4:3 using the KVCD template.

kwag 05-04-2002 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
Why would I want to??

I am happy enough with the captures in MMC 7.6 and I don't think that the All-In-Wonder series is supported as I don't think it's based on the Brooktree chipset. I don't want to capture in AVI anyway, as it is too large a file size to be practical when capturing, say, a 2 hour film and a couple of sit-com episodes on the one night!!

No, all I would like to do is encode anamorphic captures to letterboxed 4:3 using the KVCD template.

This works for me if I'm reading directly from a .d2v that is 720x480.

If your capture is 720x576, then set the input aspect in TMPEG to 16:9, and select "Video arrange Method" to "Center(Custom size) 352x352.

Give that a try and let me know. Your output should now be correct.

kwag

kwag 05-04-2002 05:55 PM

One more thing energy80s:

If you open your .d2v with FitCD, and you select your destination size to be 1/2 DVD ( which is 352x480 or 576 PAL ), you can see in the AviSynth Sample window the correct resize to be used.

Just look at the line that reads something like this:

BilinearResize(352,352,0,0,720,480)

This is the value I get when I open my .d2v and I select 1/2 DVD as destination.

And as you can see, the resize values are 352x352.

So even if you're going to frameserve from VirtualDub or read the .d2v directly with TMPEG, you can use the FitCD program as a tool to calculate the correct resize parameters to input in TMPEG.

kwag

energy80s 05-05-2002 03:24 AM

OK, I'll try that out and report back.

energy80s 05-05-2002 07:41 AM

OK, I tried that 352x352 setting, but the picture is still a bit too compressed vertically. A setting of around 352x400 seems better. But as this is actually stretching the picture to fit I would need to know the exact size to be used (give or take a pixel or two) to have the proper aspect ratio displayed on screen. Would "Fit CD" work with MPEG source files? This info would be useful for anyone converting PAL DVD's, as the default settings for TMPGenc won't work for this template.

kwag 05-05-2002 10:20 AM

Hi energy80s:

Just a quick question. Where are you watching your mpeg files?
Are you using WMP, a Software DVD player, or burned in a VCD played in your standalone DVD player?

kwag

energy80s 05-05-2002 10:50 AM

I will be using a standlone DVD player, but check them firstly with Power DVD on the PC. However I can even see the bad AR in the little preview window in TMPG, so I'm not going to waste time and discs converting a file that I know to be wrong. Looking at other posts here, there seems to be a problem with 16:9 and the 352x480(576) setting.

kwag 05-05-2002 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by energy80s
I will be using a standlone DVD player, but check them firstly with Power DVD on the PC. However I can even see the bad AR in the little preview window in TMPG, so I'm not going to waste time and discs converting a file that I know to be wrong. Looking at other posts here, there seems to be a problem with 16:9 and the 352x480(576) setting.


Almost all the films I do are 16:9, but I process them with AviSynth, and I always get the correct output aspect.

I just tried reading directly from .d2v project, and the only thing that has to be changed is to force the video arrange method to Center(custom size ), and it always produces the correct output aspect.

I preview in PowerDVD or WinDVD. Both display correctly, identical to the original source.

I just tried simulating a 720x576 anamorphic in FitCD by changing the input parameters to 720 x 576, and the output resize generated is 352 x 424. You might want to try these values in Center(custom size) and check your output aspect. Also set your input source aspect to 1:1.

I can't verify these values, because I don't have a real PAL source.
So please let us know your results. And load up your .d2v with FitCD to see if the values I have simulated actually agree with a real PAL .d2v.

kwag

Mr Walker 05-05-2002 08:34 PM

As the AR for anamophic is 16/9 (1.77777777777) and for standard 4/3 (1.333333333333) you get a difference of 75% (1,3.../1.7....=0,75). Therefor at 576 you have fullsccren and at 432 (576*0,75) you get an letteboxed 4/3 picture with the right AR.
So try 352*432 in custom size and don't mind TMPGenc's prewiew window or WMP. Always use some dvdsoftware to analyze your result.

energy80s 05-07-2002 10:17 AM

I tried 352x432 and it seems fine, so I think we'll go with that for 16x9 anamorphic encodes with the KVCD template.


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