Quantcast Finally Optimized MainConcept Encoder for KVCD! - Page 2 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #21  
10-25-2003, 06:49 PM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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With the I frames and P Frames I just tried to get it as close to kwags template, but MCE doesn't go up to 5823 P frames. In MCE its either a miss code or something that they changed for a reason, that the P frames are I frames and there is no B frames option, but replaced with P, and there must be a fixed setting for the I frames, I think. I am not good at explaining this stuff so be free to be confused . I did find an error in my template you should use 3 for P frames and 126 for I frames it is closer looking in the structure example picture in the kvcd template on TMPGenc in the MCE's.
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  #22  
10-25-2003, 08:43 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak47
With the I frames and P Frames I just tried to get it as close to kwags template, but MCE doesn't go up to 5823 P frames.
Don't do that with MCE
"5823" is KVCD's signature ( Look at your telephone key pad )
In TMPEG, the MAX number of frames per GOP is set by the field: "MAX Number of frames in GOP". So the 5823 is truncated.
Use a MAX number of 24 frames for NTSC ( or 25 for PAL ).

-kwag
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  #23  
10-25-2003, 09:07 PM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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Now im thinking is MainConcept P Frames not relevent as Tmpgenc P Frames and only by the GOP?
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  #24  
10-26-2003, 07:26 AM
CrashUK CrashUK is offline
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I find the Main Concept Encoder gives very poor quality. Lots of mircoblocks
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  #25  
10-26-2003, 08:54 AM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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CrashUK can I have more information, like what template or settings you are using, what version of MCE are you using, and are you using a frameserver (like avisyth) and if so then what is your script.
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  #26  
10-26-2003, 08:55 AM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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So you know changing I Frames to 128 and P Frames to 3 wont make any difference because you know now the example structure is make believe because 5823 alters example structure and gets truncated. So set them both back to 1 & 1. By doing this you can set Rate Control Mode to Mode 1 and no skipped frames, so main reason you get quality is to do with the high bitrate and low cq. I have set motion search mode to 15, which take alot longer in TmpgEnc but we have speed here.
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  #27  
10-26-2003, 09:16 AM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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Then whats the point of having B, I, and P frames. Sorry, but I am confused, a can someone explain or give a link.
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  #28  
10-26-2003, 10:03 AM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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Ok i've now established keeping I Frames High and P Frames low gives the most compression smaller filesize without any difference in quality.

So your original size of 126 and 3 were good settings but are improved below, sorry disregard what i was saying about keeping it 1 & 1.

I have found 126 I Frames and 1 P Frames gives the most compression now.
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  #29  
10-26-2003, 10:12 AM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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But with that you get no B frames. I remember try that method but didn't play correctly.
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  #30  
10-26-2003, 10:21 AM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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Yes there is no B Frames. Kwag did 5823 in P Frames and only the last number is used in 5823 which is 3 so looks you had the right idea all along. So i keep it at 3 after all that lol

I did a Mpeg-1 and Mpeg-2 compare and very hard to tell the difference.

Always Learning
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  #31  
10-28-2003, 12:28 AM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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With I Frames of 126 it is not dvd compliant. Even with gop of 15 and 18 You can create vobs but wont playback in dvd. Some dvd authoring software check for exact dvd compliancy, so this fails in dvd-lab with gop size memory error. Maybe you got this to work with ntsc 29 but not with pal. The MainConcept B Frames internal default setting is 2 recommended and can't change this but you can with the maninconcept plugin.

Yes B Frames make it DVD compliant

IBBP is better than IBBBP as far as quality, but not compression wise
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  #32  
10-28-2003, 06:18 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markymoo
Yes there is no B Frames. Kwag did 5823 in P Frames and only the last number is used in 5823 which is 3 so looks you had the right idea all along.
No. That's not the way it works
5823 get "cut off" by the field "MAX Number of frames in a GOP" which is normally set to 24 in all templates.
That means that there can be no more than 24 total frames per GOP.
So the usuall structure will be: IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBBPBB > NEXT GOP.

-kwag
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  #33  
10-28-2003, 11:16 AM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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Yes i understand that, i went off on a tangent trying so many settings i lost the plot for awhile.
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  #34  
10-28-2003, 08:36 PM
Markymoo Markymoo is offline
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Ak47 settings will work not work on KDVD and closed gop is 18 which isnt needed , i think you got confused with maximum gop settings in TmpgEnc.
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  #35  
10-29-2003, 06:14 PM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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http://forum.mainconcept.com/viewtopic.php?t=1022
All I can say is LOL. All he need to do is copy and past this link, and site his improved methods.
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  #36  
10-29-2003, 07:24 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak47
http://forum.mainconcept.com/viewtopic.php?t=1022
All I can say is LOL. All he need to do is copy and past this link, and site his improved methods.
Thanks for the link ak47 a very interesting read i will try that method out.
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  #37  
10-29-2003, 08:53 PM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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Well if you check out all the previous posts on this forum or thread(whatever you call it) you will see that he copy and pasted what I created and added a few improvement/details.
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  #38  
10-30-2003, 12:45 AM
Funky Hell Funky Hell is offline
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Yes it is i Renaissance from MainConcept.

My modified script http://forum.mainconcept.com/viewtopic.php?t=1022 with thanks from ak47.

Yes your script started the ball rolling again for me with Mainconcept as i had lost faith in it and went back to TmpgEnc. Sure i took your script and improved corrected it. The main changes of this script being Gop settings. I Frames is equal to Maximum Gop which has to be 15, 18 (sony standard) kdvd or 24 for kvcd to play. Your setting was way over of 126 that is disaster. Will not play/author. Too much compression. Nice Try.

Course were all here to help each other and look for improvements and publish them thats how knowledge grows. If you do a search on this forum alone you see the same information duplicated many times because people ask the same questions again and again without searching the forums for the answer. I'm not ripping anything off that wasn't the intention. I just put my results down being abit more wiser about MainConcept from your experiences and my past exp. Its been well known Mpeg-2 has been good with high bitrate but questionable with low for ages. People like to tweak all the time thats half the fun. Yours is fine for KVCD and great work and time you have done but mines more for KVCD on DVD. I spent time experienting i thought i pass on my knowledge to others. Some of this is just common sense and not taking anything away from you. Looking around i also saw results about the update capture and disable directshow on http://www.dvdrhelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=14 The advanced conversion forum.

I thought i wrote a very easy explanation more broken down on what to do. I didnt copy and paste just because you see about getting the same update fix in mine. Some of this stuff is well known already in the last 2 months. Sure your posts gave me good results,thanks. I just simplified it further and made it easier for people to try so we all get more results and people thinking. All im trying to do is improve whats been done before. Thanks to people like you and me. I'm not hiding from it.


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  #39  
10-30-2003, 07:29 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Thanks for fine tuning ak47's excellent script I for one appreciate you treaking it for improved quality.

Thanks for helping us further with MCE.

PS: I do think you could have put a note on the bottom of your post though to acknowledge that the intial method was done by ak47 and that you were imroving on it.
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  #40  
10-30-2003, 12:25 PM
ak47 ak47 is offline
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Quote:
Sure i took your script and improved corrected it.
I didn't care that you took it, but now since you quoted me for my work, and improved it now I thank you.

Quote:
I Frames is equal to Maximum Gop which has to be 15, 18 (sony standard) kdvd or 24 for kvcd to play. Your setting was way over of 126 that is disaster.
I did my encode and i was able to play it on my dvd-player and my computer. I can set it to 30000 if i wanted to, but like kwag said it cuts off with the max Gop. I don't think it does matter how much you set it to it just matters what the max Gop is set for the frame.
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I thought i wrote a very easy explanation more broken down on what to do.
Thanx, ya mine is explain, but on many threads and spread out detail, and harder to read, yes my grammer is not the best .
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