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-   -   Encoding: Choose MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 conversion? (http://www.digitalfaq.com/archives/encode/7351-encoding-choose-mpeg.html)

Hydeus 12-23-2003 06:37 PM

Encoding: Choose MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 conversion?
 
Hi.
As all of you have discovered, this is my first set on this forum, so please keep a lot of indulegence for me :oops:
As in topic: M1 or M2 ?? (thats a question)
I've read many posts about encoding to K(S)VCD and in many of them I've see a astonish frazes: beter quality with MPEG1 than with MPEG2. (of cource for KVCD).
My simple question: WHY?
I'm trying to find my way in backuping videos (not only DVD but also VHS) with KVCD standard, and I want to elect suitable standard (I'm pointing in standalone DVD players, but dont have a DVD recorder).
(Simple fraze): HELP :roll:
Thx for any sugestions. And keep in mind: I'm very newbie in this theme, hovewer I've got some (not small) experience in encoding with MPEG4.

Poor english team member :lol:




----------------------------------------

Nevermin. I was diging deep and I've found the answer.
I will delete this post after Xmas, because...
.... ho ho ho , Merry Xmas to all of you Kpeople :twisted:

bicho_visacoso 12-25-2003 06:12 PM

Hi!

Simply question... MPEG1 gives better results with less bitrate than MPEG2, and one movie in one CD needs a very low bitrate ;)

If your DVD supports KVCD you should make your movies always using MPEG1 and if it doesn't but supports KSVCD then MPEG2... KDVD always should go in MPEG2 because it's the standard format for DVD and achieves better quality with higher bitrates.


It's always a good idea to try encoding something with both MPEG formats and watch the difference by yourself.

Bye.

russiansexpat 12-26-2003 06:14 AM

I use mpeg2 because I usually encode 1h30m movie with quality 4 or 5 and 480x576 resolution and image it as SVCD.
I use SVCD also because it allows variable audio bitrates, played well on players I've checked (6 different models and brands) and higher resolutions and menus (have not tried it yet).
Just recently discovered gopchop video editor, it can edit mpeg2 (but not mpeg1) without re-encoding, so TV crap ads can be opt out.
Often told that mpeg1 is better at video bitrates than 1500, but then you have to image as VCD and chose lower resolutions 352x288 or 352x240 and fixed audio bitrate or bend the standard.

Dialhot 12-26-2003 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiansexpat
Often told that mpeg1 is better at video bitrates than 1500, but then you have to image as VCD and chose lower resolutions 352x288 or 352x240 and fixed audio bitrate or bend the standard.

KVCD breaks the standard ! Are we making KVCD here or not ?

As soon as you not encode in MPEG1 CBR, you break the VCD standard and you do XVCD. If you player handle XVCD, you can go further and break also the audio bitrate and/or the resolution.

I encode everything in MPEG1, whatever the resolution (from 352*240 up to 544*576). MPEG1 is always better (visually) than MPEG2 under 2200 Kbit/s.

russiansexpat 12-26-2003 11:11 AM

What image do you create with mpeg1 - vcd or svcd?
If you create with vcd structure, can you put two audio tracks and/or 5.1 surround audio to be playable on most standalones?
How you compare video quality mpeg1 and mpeg2? Do you use B-frames?
(now I usually encode 1h30min movie with mpeg2 quality 5 or 4 adaptive quantisation and variable audio ~160 kbps to fit single 80min CD, so respective mpeg1 quality is around 3 and thus bitrates can go above 2000 with mpeg1).

Dialhot 12-26-2003 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiansexpat
What image do you create with mpeg1 - vcd or svcd?
If you create with vcd structure

SVCD when it's for me (as my one of my standalones has problems with MPEG1 XVCD but not with MPEG1 SVCD). But VCD when it's for other peoples.
In fact it depends on what I know about their standalones capabilities. So let sayd I do both (VCD and SVCD). But always in MPEG1

Quote:

can you put two audio tracks and/or 5.1 surround audio to be playable on most standalones?
I never had needs like this so I never did. Btw, either in SVCD you can't put ac3. Only MP2 is allowed.

Quote:

How you compare video quality mpeg1 and mpeg2?
With my eyes ! That's the better tool I know and the only one I trust.

Quote:

Do you use B-frames?
Yes I do.

Quote:

(now I usually encode 1h30min movie with mpeg2 quality 5 or 4 adaptive quantisation
Remember : 95% of people here use TMPGENC under Windows to encode. Your situation is different and probably the choice between MPEG1 or MPEG2 also.

Quote:

and variable audio ~160 kbps to fit single 80min CD
You talk about breaking the rules and you do variable audio ? That's the less compatible mode ! Normally no standalone should read VBR MP2. In fact the only standlones than can do that are the ones that can play MP3.

Quote:

so respective mpeg1 quality is around 3 and thus bitrates can go above 2000 with mpeg1).
Like I said just above : you situation is completly different.

Hydeus 12-26-2003 06:14 PM

Another question?
Ok. I'm already convinced to MPEG1. But encoding withe TMPG takes about 4 times the lenght of the movie. With CCE MPEG2 I've reach 0,7 time of the movie (Athlon 1800+). Is this normal for TMPG?

Dialhot 12-26-2003 06:21 PM

Yes it is (unfortunally :-(). But as the result are awesome compared to CCE MPEG2, there is no real contest ;-)

Hydeus 12-26-2003 07:11 PM

Booo :(
Ok. I'll serf to TMPG, if it's MPEG1 is so great :bowdown:.
Now only a small problem with ToK :banghead:, getting "division by zero" error message :crashed:, and i will be a happy my 1st KVCD owner ;)
Let's dig into ToK subforum for answer :book:

russiansexpat 12-27-2003 04:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:
and variable audio ~160 kbps to fit single 80min CD

You talk about breaking the rules and you do variable audio ? That's the less compatible mode ! Normally no standalone should read VBR MP2. In fact the only standlones than can do that are the ones that can play MP3.
I do not respect any rules, but I do respect standards.
VBR mpeg1 layer II is according to SVCD standard.
http://www.vcdimager.org/pub/vcdimag.../vcdimager.pdf
Internals of mpeg1 layer 3 (aka mp3) and layer 2 (aka mp2) are different,
all players that can play mp2 should also play mp2 VBR, I've tried a few with no problem.

Dialhot 12-27-2003 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiansexpat
all players that can play mp2 should also play mp2 VBR, I've tried a few with no problem.

Tha'ts a good news but be carefull : MP2 VBR mode is REALLY crappy (compared to MP3's one). The protocol does not handle it very well and you have a lot a jitter in hight freq. For sure, I don't think it hurts for a movie soundtrack, but be aware about that.

incredible 12-27-2003 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russiansexpat
I do not respect any rules, but I do respect standards.

In our case The "outside" standards are seen here as the "rules" we try to break by still preserving playback compatibilty.

There's a way to obtain 5.1 channel separated encoding sound.
BUT your player has to support multichannel mp2, sometimes a little Logo is shown on some player models "Multichannel mp2".
You can "try" creating a 5.1 mp2 using "hypercube" from a 5.1 Source (As I remeber, but I tried it once and it was not supported by "my" standalone).
Quote:

Do you use B-frames?
You should at least use 1 Bframe in the IPB Interval within a GOP.
It works BiDirectional and so in case of long Gops the Bframe also gets information from the NEXT I frame! And thats why an encoding including much more bframes takes longer cause of the bi directional reference which has to be done during encoding and this takes longer as if you just apply Predicted Frames which do only refer to the PREVIOUS frames & I frame.


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