Quantcast KVCD or SKVCD Legal DVD Resolutions? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
12-28-2003, 12:26 AM
Elrik Elrik is offline
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I've read the FAQ and used the Search but haven't found a clear answer to this... Once a KVCD or an SKVCD is made in legal DVD resolutions (ie 352x480, 704x480, 720x480), is the MPEG-1/2 stream no longer compatible if one wanted to later transfer it to a DVD-R WITHOUT re-encoding? Is the GOP structure on KVCD and SKVCD no longer compliant with DVD format? If so, then is there a "safe" way to make KVCD and SKVCD (perhaps by using a modified KDVD template) that could be later transfered to DVDs without problems? And if there's such a "safe" way, is there still a benefit in quality of, say, putting a movie on 2 SKVCDs versus 2 SVCDs? How much benefit?

Just to add something -- I'm not looking at KVCD or SKVCD as means of squeezing large movies onto a single CD-R but rather getting a better quality (video) on say, 2 or 3 SKVCDs as opposed to 2 or 3 regular SVCDs, while keeping the audio at 192kbps MP2 Stereo. And also being sure that when I transfer the those SKVCDs to DVD-R (without re-encode) they will be compliant.

Thanks in advance!
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12-28-2003, 01:12 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi Elrik,

KDVDs are 100% DVD compliant.
Either 352x480, 704x480 and 720x480.
If you use the available KDVD templates and select those resolutions, they will play back on all DVD compliant players.
As for KVCDs, that's another story
The long GOPs are not DVD compliant, and the KVCDx3 resolution is not.
You can fool some players by using DVDPatcher, and patching the mpeg header to think it's a standard resolution, but it will fail on some players.
HOWEVER, I've read some people that have encoded KDVDs with the long GOPs of 24 frames, and TMPEG DVD Author has imported the files and burned them to DVD-Rs, and they play fine on standalones.
So you can try that, if you want to experiment

-kwag
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  #3  
12-28-2003, 08:21 PM
Elrik Elrik is offline
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Hi, Kwag

Thanks for your reply

Yes, I'm aware of the DVD Patcher trick for regular SVCD-to-DVD transfer, so it makes sense that it could sometimes work the same way for SKVCDs as well (for non-compliant DVD res).

I'm not sure what I will choose to go with yet. Perhaps I'll even try a 1 CD rip thing as a challenge and for fun. But regardless of that, I'm quite amazed at your dedication for pulling this (KVCD and KDVD) thing off. Great work!
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12-28-2003, 08:30 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Thanks

-kwag
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12-29-2003, 06:42 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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A propo's resolutions. With CCE (MPEG2) I set an aspect rato option to 4:3 and in properties of video in any media player I get (for instance) 528x576 (AR 4:3). With TMPG even if I set apect ratio 4:3 635 PAL, in media player it comes 528 x 576 (AR 577:576) Is it important to have a 4:3 AR or it does not matter?
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12-29-2003, 06:58 AM
russiansexpat russiansexpat is offline
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http://www.imdb.com/Sections/DVDs/AspectRatios/
check this; there are many aspects in this world.
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12-29-2003, 07:11 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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I know that are many aspet ratios (like peoples in the word). This is not my point. I'm not asking of what aspect ratio is resulting form picture resolution (wide by height). CCE adds independent aspect ratio to the video (4:3, 16:9) if you select one, and in TMPG no mater if I choose aspect ratio "4:3 635 lines PAL", with the same resolution I get strange 577:576 AR.
Question: is this matter or should I don't bother?

Sugestion: try to open video in MPC and in file properties look at details - video size (AR).
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12-29-2003, 07:30 AM
russiansexpat russiansexpat is offline
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aspect view in mpeg is a different animal from pixel width/height ratio. you can set aspect view for example 1.414/1 and have pixels 278x314.
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12-29-2003, 08:33 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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russian ... that wasn't again his question.
He asked why does a 4:3 set output done in CCE come out right in the mediaplayer and why a 4:3 set output of tmpgEnc isn't shown right.
(If I understood that right)

So ... as I never watch my movies re-stretched on a pc (why should I?) I only choose a preview of my encodings in VirtualdubMpeg2 as it supports mpeg1 AND mpeg2 imports! For me IMHO its the only preview I trust in (ok, its 1:1 but thats also how the encoding is done and best choice for checking) cause its not treated by the directdrawacceleration engine which does manipulate the view and even at lowbitrate encodings this would be shown in a very worse state (on my machines).

So what you can do in your case IF you want to preview in 4:3 mode.
Open the encoded mpeg using DVDpatcher and watch using BOTH encodings (CCE & TmpgENc) what their headers say. Do both say the same according to the AR index?? If TmpgEnc doesn't have the right ar setting, go and correct it using the dvd patcher
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12-29-2003, 01:23 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Thx Incredible
I've already preformed simple test While I don't have a standalone DVD, it take me a few moments. It seams that this AR argument is not important for standaones, and that was only what i wanted to know

I prefer VirtualDubMod. It combines VDMpeg2 and some other VD(can't remember name)
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12-29-2003, 03:43 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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I also use VdubMod as it supports full Avisynth scripting and by this its the best way to compare what filters will do and their settings by simple "safe and refresh"
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12-29-2003, 03:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I also use VdubMod as it supports full Avisynth scripting and by this its the best way to compare what filters will do and their settings by simple "safe and refresh"
Not at all. The best way, as I already told it once or twice, is ffdshow !

There is a tab in ffdshow configuration panel where you can put an avisynth script. Than you can switch it on or off while the video is playing, or even change the parameters of the filter, and see imediatly the effects !
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12-29-2003, 05:02 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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I know you told this "once or twice" BUT as I asked you,
IF I am maybe in Virtualdub ... the only way to get in this directshow dialog is when I enter compression and by choosing ffvfw ... but this doesn't seem to be the way.
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12-29-2003, 05:08 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I know you told this "once or twice" BUT as I asked you,
IF I am maybe in Virtualdub ... the only way to get in this directshow dialog is when I enter compression and by choosing ffvfw ... but this doesn't seem to be the way.
Why do you want to use it throught vdub ? I do not understand that point.
ffdshow is used when you are playing the video in any player. I prefer to use zoomplay because you can open the config panel of any codec used for the rendering directly from there, but you can also whatch the video with wmp and invoke the config panel of ffdshow via the start menu of windows (ffdshow install a link during it's installation).

A really do not understand what is your need there.

Note: Ido not have ffvfw installed on my PC and I remind you that it was removed from avisynth installation ON PURPOSE. This filter really sucks and hung up a lot of installations.
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12-29-2003, 05:49 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Dialhot...
as I really want to test your way ... it will not work for me, I don't know why. I registered the ffdshow in the zplayer settings but in the ffdshow conf.Panel if I do something .... nothing happens.

But by the way ... above I meant Vdobmod where you also can use the script editor. But I think you understood this.

But I try to find your way to work on my win2000 system.

PS: The ffvfw installation never gave probs to me
Is a relict of my avs 2.52 installation which works very well.
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12-29-2003, 05:59 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Dialhot...
as I really want to test your way ... it will not work for me, I don't know why. I registered the ffdshow in the zplayer settings but in the ffdshow conf.Panel if I do something .... nothing happens.
First, you don't have to register anything normally.
Second, be carreful that some mpeg codec directly call the overlay renderer and this way do not allow other filters to be used. That's the case for ligos : you must uncheck "use overlay" in ligos config panel and restart the pkayer.
To be sure, make a test with an avi, not a mpeg.

Do you have ffdshow that appears in the list of codec used during the play with zoomplayer ? (right click then "filter properties" window).

Is the avisynth panel the only one that doesn't have any effect, or ALL the ffdshow settings ?

Quote:
But by the way ... above I meant Vdobmod where you also can use the script editor. But I think you understood this.
I never use this editor as I do not understabnd also why it is valuable . Notepad do it very well. Or better, textpad with a nice "avisynth.syn" configuration file

Quote:
PS: The ffvfw installation never gave probs to me
The same for me. For other people it leads to reinstall all windows system because it installs something that is called during windows init and that failed... so the system reboot.. and so on

Quote:
Is a relict of my avs 2.52 installation which works very well.
But that can be ffvfw that makes ffdshow to not work correctly under zoomplayer
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12-29-2003, 06:33 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Dialhot this evening I'll keep cracking that nut!
So i'll keep you informed if it works.


Quote:
A really do not understand what is your need there.
A litle explanation why I use VdubMod.

First it gives me a real preview in comparison to other mediaplayers cause there's no systemfiltering via Directshow or so on so no codec or ffdshow etc. config is needed (as you see in which trouble i get ).
Ok, but in case of other mediaplayers I tried, there was everytime a too dark and bad treated output but that may cause on wrong ds system settings which can be the reason for this.

Ok, but the MAIN reason is...
In VdubMod I can load an Avi via Avisynth import, then right above I choose the script editor where a line countered avisynth window appears.. nice in case if line accorded error reports.
I put the video screen to the left on my desktop and the script editor to the right. Now everytime if I do a change in the script I just hit F5 and the modification is directly shown in the left videowindow. A real WYSIWYG.

I think thats the same logic as you do via the ffdshow panel??? Or isn't?

PS: Before trying to set Zplayers options I already kicked out that FFvfw codec as you recommended.
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  #18  
12-29-2003, 08:45 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
I think thats the same logic as you do via the ffdshow panel??? Or isn't?
Yes it is. And with the benefit that under ffdshow you also have a "on/off" check box that allow to compare original video and filtered one easily. But perhaps you can do this also with the two vdub panels.

Quote:
PS: Before trying to set Zplayers options I already kicked out that FFvfw codec as you recommended.
As I told you, you do not have anything to set under zplayer to use ffdshow. ffdshow is called by any player like DirectVobSub for instance.
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