Quantcast Changefps vs. AssumeFPS vs VirtualDub? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
12-29-2003, 08:37 PM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So far I do all my PAL to NTSC conversion this way Vdub>> Change FPS under the Video TAB and save without audio on directstreamcopy.
But lately I decided to try again doing the FPS conversion using AVS. In the past and now I found that, Assume FPS gives me a weird effect like everything goes much more slow than it should, I know 24 fps is slower than 25 but the results are not good. Using Change FPS I get an effect like the camera goes fast/slow/fast/slow, dont know how to describe it, but it looks like the camera is shaking a lot.
The best result IMHO is using Vdub to do the FPS conversion but it has his downsides; I use subtitles in 90% of the movies so if I have a wroking sob ofr a PAL movie I have to resync the subs to fit the new FPS (its not hard bu it takes time), and I need a considerable amount of space to resync the audio, cos I have to open the mp3 file with Sound Forge save it as WAV and re encode it using Headache. Wich is not funny cos if the m1v file comes a little bit big, I (almost) always renecode the audio to a lower btr, and If I have to do this I must do the whole process again (I could save the WAV but it takes to much space).
Now lately I've been using the Change FPS to do Concerts since I have a picky ear and I can notice the change of speed on music (on speech It's almost unnoticeable).
Now what I like to know if theres any other way to do the FPS conversion that wouldnt requiere audio/subtitles resync or at least gaves me better results without to much hassle. Preferable using AVS.
I let you here the script Im using now

Code:
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\grip.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\STMedianFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\asharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\unfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\blockbuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\atc.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\DctFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Deen.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Sampler-2.5.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Convolution3DYV12.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\VSFilter.dll")

AviSource("Persona.non.grata.avi",false)
##AddBorders(13,0,0,0)
BlindPP(cpu=4)
Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=3,variance=0.1,seed=1)
Convolution3D(1, 6, 12, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
GripCrop(480, 480, overscan=1, source_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="LanczosResize")
Undot()
TemporalSoften(2,7,7,3,2)
DCTFilter(1,1,1,1,1,1,0.5,0)
#Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=10,variance=0.3,seed=5623)
GripBorders()
TextSub("D:\kvcds\Persona.non.grata.srt") 
ChangeFPS(23.976)
##Sampler(length=24)
Any Tip idea or hint I could try??

EDIT: I tryed using TMPGenc to change the FPS but the result is a jump/skip every second or so.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Site Staff / Ad Manager
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-29-2003, 09:28 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You should'nt use ChangeFPS for a such little fps change. Assume FPS should normally do the job very well. Are you sure you didn't do any mistake in the parameters ? I never had any problem with that.

Note: AssumeFPS does _exactly_ what vdub does.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-29-2003, 09:41 PM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well as far I can remember I didnt do any mistake with that. And I know it should do the same as Vdub but for some reason the resul was not the same when I tested it. Im doing an encode now so I can test, but probably tomorrow gonna try it with a small clip to see the diference.
By any chance you sont know any other method to convert PAL to NTSC?

Thanx in advance
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-29-2003, 09:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgNa
Thanx in advance
There isn't any other !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
01-18-2004, 11:35 PM
J-Wo J-Wo is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 454
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
You should'nt use ChangeFPS for a such little fps change. Assume FPS should normally do the job very well. Are you sure you didn't do any mistake in the parameters ? I never had any problem with that.
Thanks Dialhot, I was looking for an answer to this exact question. I was using ChangeFPS for all my 25 --> 23.976 fps until I noticed that when you select Format Conversion in MovieStacker it adds the line AssumeFPS (23.976, true). Just wondering what the "true" part meant and why you say ChangeFPS should not be used.

And now for AgNa, there is a much simpler way to do your audio conversion which also requires less disk space. Open your AVI with VirtualDub and do a directstream extraction of the audio, which in most cases will save it as an MP3 file. Then load this up in BeSweet and select the preset for PAL --> NTSC conversion, and save as an MP2. Takes much less time and less diskspace. If Besweet doesn't like your MP3 audio you may have to decompress the audio from the AVI and save it as a WAV file, but in most cases that is not necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
01-19-2004, 02:29 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
@ J-Wo

"true" means that the audiosamplerate will be modyfied so that the sound still will be insync but this effect will only be done if your source contains audio.

So IF you do your job using Besweet afterwards to handle the audio separate using the OAT Settings in beswwet you DO NOT use true as Besweet takes care about all this.

And if you set to "true", you just have to let in Besewwt everything as it is bit activating SSRC to do tha 44.1khz conversion or in case of KDVD the 48khz conversion.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
01-19-2004, 06:14 AM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry I forgot to reply to this one.
I dont use Besweet cos for some reason when I do FPS change with it, the file comes out with cracks and click wich is pretty anoying.
Now What I noticed after Dialhot reaply is that AssumeFPS is that it only gives me that weird fast-slow effect in some files and not in all of them. Any idea why? Using Vdub that doesnt happend, so for now until I find the cause for this I just make the sample and if I can see that effect on the sample using AssumeFPS I just go back and use vdub.
thanx for your help guys
Reply With Quote
  #8  
01-19-2004, 07:06 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
Maybe some videos got 23.976 and some 29.976 thats why AssumeFPS does output different qualities, said sometimes jerky movement.

In case of 23.976 sources you can speedup/slowdown to 25.000 and vice versa.

But in case of 29.976 you have to do an inverse telecine to get back to the 23.976 FPS IF your video is a Film which is originally shot at 23.976 and all Hollywood-Blockbuster Movies are in that FPS state.

Do not use Virtualdub as Frameserver anymore as Vdub frameserving is slower and no matter what input, the input will be convertet to RGB32! which also slows down the process and each colorconversion does seen as a whole a punch to the final quality.

If using Avisynth you can treat the source in the colorspace as it is and the only following colorspace conversion will be done WITHIN the following encoder (TmpgEnc RGB24 and CCE YUY2 ..... both finally do output a KVCD YV12 4:2:0 mpeg to your disk)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
01-19-2004, 10:02 AM
zes zes is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Posts: 43
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to zes
the cracks and clicks in an encoded .mp2 file are most likely the result of 'toolame'. try using 'mp2enc' instead in besweet
Reply With Quote
  #10  
01-19-2004, 10:31 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zes
the cracks and clicks in an encoded .mp2 file are most likely the result of 'toolame'. try using 'mp2enc' instead in besweet
Unfortunally, I had sometimes these cracks too and I use mp2enc since a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
01-22-2004, 05:55 AM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well after some testing I found that the jerky movment is not a result of AssumeFPS, well I done some convertions and the result is optimal, but in others using the same scrip and with the same FPS in the source I get that effect... For now I couldnt find the reson why some files do that and others not, so for now after I encode the sample I check it and if I get tha jerky playback I go to Vdub (I dont framerate I just select Direct Stream copy) and save it as 23.976 and that solves all.
I wonder if the files that gaves me that jerky playback were originlay 29.976 converted to 25fps
Reply With Quote
  #12  
01-22-2004, 06:38 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
Quote:
I wonder if the files that gaves me that jerky playback were originlay 29.976 converted to 25fps
I didn't understand you well, thats why I ask:

What do you mean by the quote I posted above?

Do you got NOW some 29.976 which you wonna convert or what

The only (senseful and correct) way I know is, if you want to go from 25fps to 23.976 FPS is

-via selectevery or decimate (and thats a sensible and only for experts way, look at Doom9.org where Sharfis_brain did that)

- or the most easy way, to add that assumeFPS(23.976) and using afterwards Besweets OTA settings 25.000 to 23.976 to get the audio in sync.

So .... your workout to me seems really strange and I don't know if your sources already got some nice problems.

In case of 25 fps sources there will be never a need to convert to 29.976 NTSC Video.

SO the best way to understand you and to solve your problems is that you fill out the following Questions and post them filled out again:

-----------------------------Please Fill out----------------------------------

SOURCE:

- Filetype (divx/xvid/mpeg/mjpg - so what says Gspot??) ? :
- interlaced(means combing on fast moving scenes) or not interlaced ? :
- already jerky playback or blended Frames? :
- Framerate (29.976, 23.976, 25.000) ? :
- Resolution ?
- Audiosamplerate (44.1000, 48.000) ? :

(some answers you get if using Gspot on the source!)


DESTINATION:

- KVCD or KDVD ?:
- Mode (mpeg1 or mpeg2) ?:
- Framerate (29.976, 23.976, 25.000) ? :
- Resolution ?
- Audiosamplerate (44.100khz KVCD, 48.000khz KDVD) ? :


Avisynth:

- Post your last state of your script here!:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #13  
01-23-2004, 09:31 PM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
-----------------------------Please Fill out----------------------------------

SOURCE:

- Filetype (divx/xvid/mpeg/mjpg - so what says Gspot??) ? : Divx or Xvid iit's the same, but I have to check further in my next encodes
- interlaced(means combing on fast moving scenes) or not interlaced ? : non interlaced, but Im not 100% sure
- already jerky playback or blended Frames? : no, I have perfect playback
- Framerate (29.976, 23.976, 25.000) ? :25.000
- Resolution ? Variables, all the same result
- Audiosamplerate (44.1000, 48.000) ? : 48Khz

(some answers you get if using Gspot on the source!)


DESTINATION:

- KVCD or KDVD ?: KVCD
- Mode (mpeg1 or mpeg2) ?: MPEG1 or 2 no diference
- Framerate (29.976, 23.976, 25.000) ? :23.976
- Resolution ? 480x480, 352x480 or 704x480
- Audiosamplerate (44.100khz KVCD, 48.000khz KDVD) ? 44.100


Avisynth:

LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\grip.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\STMedianFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\asharp.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\unfilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\blockbuster.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\atc.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\DctFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Deen.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Sampler-2.5.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\Convolution3DYV12.dll" )
LoadPlugin("D:\kvcds\codecs\VSFilter.dll")

AviSource("mymovie.avi",false)
##AddBorders(13,0,0,0)
BlindPP(cpu=4)
Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max =3,variance=0.1,seed=1)
Convolution3D(1, 6, 12, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
GripCrop(480, 480, overscan=1, source_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="LanczosResize")
Undot()
TemporalSoften(2,7,7,3,2)
DCTFilter(1,1,1,1,1,1,0.5,0)
GripBorders()
TextSub("D:\kvcds\mymovie.ssa")
AssumeFPS(23.976)


What I tried to say before is that maybe the original DVD was a 29,976Fps and converted to an avi (Divx or Xvid) at 25fps, if someone have a reson to do that. And taking it down from the 25fps file to 23.976 makles the effect apear. I will try to post a link to a small sample tomorrow so you guys can see better what Im getting sometimes when I usse AssumeFPS. Sorry for the late response but Im not getting email notification for my posts after the second reply
Reply With Quote
  #14  
01-24-2004, 02:06 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
Quote:
will try to post a link to a small sample tomorrow so you guys can see better what Im gettin
Very good idea!
So lets see.
A Sample of 30 Sec. would be very good

Inc.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
01-28-2004, 12:27 AM
kenguard kenguard is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Deep South, U.S.A.
Posts: 22
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to kenguard
I've been watching this thread to see the results because I too have a similar problem when trying to work with AVIs with a 25 fps frame rate. I can can use VDub to change them to 29.97 fps for use on a regular DVD without any playback problems. Going to 23.976 is jerky. I assumed that going from 25 fps to nearly 24 fps would natuarally give me jerks in 1 second intervals as it's dropping a frame a second. My hope was that after I convert the AVI to 29.97 fps that my encoding it to MPG at 23.976 fps will give me better video.

I'm trying to learn to work with AviSynth, but I seem to be progressing slowly at it. I got bogged down in all the info this site has on it and the many examples of scripts I've seen. Maybe I'll get some use out of it on this problem, and finally get Silent Running on KVCD.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
01-28-2004, 04:20 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenguard
I too have a similar problem when trying to work with AVIs with a 25 fps frame rate [...] I convert the AVI to 29.97 fps that my encoding it to MPG at 23.976 fps will give me better video.

Do you use a lossless codec for that ? Or are you using Divx codec ?
Never convert a divx in an other divx.

This codec is the worst codec ever ! And your KVCD will be all but good after that.

Quote:
I'm trying to learn to work with AviSynth, but I seem to be progressing slowly at it.
It's not easy to learn all in fw time but you have to use avisynth to process your videos else you won't be happy with your KVCD and all your work will be lost.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
01-28-2004, 06:26 AM
AgNa AgNa is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 53
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok heres the SAMPLE
Reply With Quote
  #18  
01-28-2004, 06:55 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
Is that the already encoded sample?????

Because only every 3 frames there's a movement!

Means the second and third frames are just a copy of the first, mega stuttering! And that in case of 23.976 encoding!

I want to see a little part of the orig source! Not the encoded one.
Thx.

Means:

111222333444555666777 = this would be the count 21 Frames
Reply With Quote
  #19  
01-28-2004, 06:58 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,463
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just to know, how is this video encoded without the line "AssumeFPS" ?

Edit: lol, we had the same idea Incredible
Reply With Quote
  #20  
01-28-2004, 06:59 AM
incredible incredible is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,189
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to incredible
Thats what I meant Phil, no Avisynth, nothing added or performed on that, just a sample of the avi in its orig state.

To me it seems as its a wrong decimating and afterwards converting-, not assumingFPS
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Avisynth: What is better? assumeFPS, changeFPS, convertFPS Prodater64 Avisynth Scripting 3 11-14-2004 01:18 PM
KDVD: CCE + assumefps(25) gamma Video Encoding and Conversion 3 08-06-2004 05:20 AM
:: AssumeFPS :: BJ Conversão e Codificação de Vídeo (Português) 4 04-22-2004 07:05 AM
Script Error: Changefps dont have a named argument linear? CaLaFaT Video Encoding and Conversion 4 02-05-2004 11:32 AM
Can I just use ChangeFPS(29.97) instead of doing a pull down? rs008f Video Encoding and Conversion 1 08-23-2003 07:08 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:25 AM  —  vBulletin © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd